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Charly Apr 22 @ 10:33am
Alarm Call with Space Wolves
Has anyone tried this?

I am starting from scratch, and have made it this far with no problems.

I have lost this a few times.I have made a decent start on my latest atempt, but without the force wall (or whatever), I am struggling to cover both corridors before being over run.

TO get control I need two bolters covering the top and two at the bottom, then I intend to work my way along toward the exit. Problem is getting enough people awake in time, problem being the lingtning claws guy is dead weight, and the Flamer is only good for six shots
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datguy13 Apr 22 @ 11:15am 
If your Space Wolves Lightning Claw is dead weight, then you have the worst luck I've ever seen. When placed on Guard, I've seen the Space Wolves LC Terminators take out as many as 10 Genestealers in a single turn without losing a fight, and block corridors for the duration of an entire mission. There's always a chance they can lose, but that chance is significantly smaller than the Claudio's (the Blood Angel LC) chance of losing a fight.

I get the impression your problem here is that you forgot what the Space Wolves are good at. They're much more melee-oriented than the Blood Angels, and although you can still control most maps with Ranged combat, the Space Wolves can also go toe-to-toe in melee with 'stealers and survive in alot of cases, even with just a Power Fist. Use that to your advantage and abuse the Guard command often.
Charly Apr 22 @ 2:22pm 
Ill be honest. With the LC, he died first defence on guard, and then second game, he died when attacked from behind (no kills either game).

Managed t complete it with everyone escaping. I think it depend very much on where the Stealers spawn from the first couple of goes, and the command points you get, as a quick start is crucial

Is there anywhere that has a list or table with all of the close combat weapons, as I have no idea how close combat works for most weapons. I know there are power swords frost axes, LC, Thunder Hammer, Sergeants get a reroll? And Space Wolves get a bonus of some kind.

Alays prefer to use Storm Bolters on long corridors. None of this fancy Assault Cannon or flamer rubbish. Give me 10 good marines with Bolters, and we are winning, unless there is a Brood Lord, in which case an Assault Cannon is acceptable.
Last edited by Charly; Apr 22 @ 2:22pm
chesstoad Apr 22 @ 4:20pm 
Sounds like you got unlucky the first time and the second time you suffered from bad positioning.

Let me throw out some numbers at you (keep in mind that these numbers don't take into account conditional probability so are approximately accurate for guard mode rolls, and don't get me started on figuring out parrying results).

A space wolf LC in guard mode has 83.3% chance of victory, 6.4% of death and 10.3% of tie.

Compared to a blood angel LC in guard mode which is 64.8% of victory, 16.7% of death and 18.5% of tie.

The numbers for a space wolf LC NOT in guard mode are still very good: 72% of victory, 14% of death and 14% of tie. This means that space wolf LCs can actually go on the offensive if you really need them to.

LCs is where you're gonna see the biggest advantage in being a space wolf. As blood angels they suck and I'd rather have a bolter, but as space wolves, I'd rather have a LC. I think a 10 LC unit could go very far in any mission objective, even involving broodlords (although good luck getting through with 0 casualties).

Even just a normal space wolf terminator is effective in melee if in guard mode.

Space wolf powerfist guard mode - 52.9% victory, 27.9% death, 19.2% tie
Blood Angel powerfist guard mode - 28.1% victory, 47.1% death, 24.8% tie

The mere +1 to melee really changes your calculation about whether to go into guard mode on powerfisters in tight situations. I haven't figured out the math yet to know the optimal solution to each situation.

What you should keep in mind though is that if your space wolf does have a poweraxe then you should be putting him on guard mode if you do not have a lot of space to fire at genestealers from.

So you got unlucky the first time. It happens. Even if a space wolf LC had 95% chance of victory, they'd still go down sometimes, and it could be the first time, and then you'd have to figure out what to do next.

I posted this video of mine previously, but I think it's relevant to your situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PW4AfGrQko

In it, I lose a pack-leading LC in his 2nd encounter with a genestealer, which really kind of put a dent into my operation, but fortunately I had a backup plan for his eventual demise and with a bit of luck was able to recover. The other pack-leading LC was able to kill about 15-20 genestealers before he went down and did his mission-critical job just fine. Luck is a big part of this game, but it's far from being a crap shot. Strategy still plays a big part. Just adapt to your strengths and learn from your mistakes.

I am interested in doing a playthrough of Alarm Call with space wolves because I was wondering how their ♥♥♥♥tier librarian would make it more challenging. When I get some time I'll make a video of how I beat it, assuming that I do beat it.
datguy13 Apr 23 @ 11:44am 
Originally posted by Charly:
Ill be honest. With the LC, he died first defence on guard, and then second game, he died when attacked from behind (no kills either game).

Managed t complete it with everyone escaping. I think it depend very much on where the Stealers spawn from the first couple of goes, and the command points you get, as a quick start is crucial

Is there anywhere that has a list or table with all of the close combat weapons, as I have no idea how close combat works for most weapons. I know there are power swords frost axes, LC, Thunder Hammer, Sergeants get a reroll? And Space Wolves get a bonus of some kind.

Alays prefer to use Storm Bolters on long corridors. None of this fancy Assault Cannon or flamer rubbish. Give me 10 good marines with Bolters, and we are winning, unless there is a Brood Lord, in which case an Assault Cannon is acceptable.

Yeah, sounds like quite a bit of bad luck there in your first paragraph.

More important though is your question: You can get some basic information about the weapons from the "Librarium" heading in the main menu, but it needs a serious update. That would be the one oversight FC made when they added the Space Wolves DLC. It will tell you the basics about Power Swords, Lightning Claws, Flamers, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Assault Cannons though, and the Frost Axe used by the SW Sergeants and Bolter Terminator function the same as a Power Sword does.

Chesstoad outlines things very well for you. Chew on his numbers for a bit, and they should help you get some insight into how the dynamic works. :)

You are definitely spot on with one thing: Stormbolters rule the long-ranged game. They are optimal for long corridor security, and the only time you'll want to use anything else is during a push into Genestealer controlled territory or when you run out of manpower with a SB. The Assault Cannon has its uses though--primarily for when you need to guarantee a lot of kills without the chance of a jam. And the Flamer is mostly for AoE death and corridor blocking, which is why it comes with limited ammunition. In general, I get the impression you know what you're doing, it just came down to bad luck. Don't get discouraged, eventually the dice turn everyone's way.
Charly Apr 24 @ 9:58am 
THanks for the replys

I have had a lot more luck with the lightning claws on subsequent missions

I cant find the rules in the Librarium for the frost axe though.

And I am confused by the Librarians. The Space Wolves gets a plus 2 to his dice roll? And in guard you reroll.

With the rerolls, if its a draw, does it reroll?
Zuggi  [developer] Apr 24 @ 12:59pm 
No hasn't been added to the librarium at this point...on the list but really not top priority..also the localization in the way there..

Can't remember if it re-rolls a draw right now...don't think so
Charly Apr 24 @ 1:58pm 
Cheers
datguy13 Apr 24 @ 2:30pm 
In melee combat, the Librarian will add Psi-points sufficient enough to win, but the Rune Priest (Space Wolf Librarian) will also gain his normal +1 Space Wolf bonus. The Force Axe they both use as a melee weapon provides the same Parry bonus as the Power Sword will as well. That makes the Rune Priest an amazingly powerful melee unit, and in order to balance that, his defensive Psyker powers are significantly weaker.

From what I've seen, Rerolls from Parries are forced before the computer resolves the final combat tally, so even in the case of what might have been a draw, the reroll will occur. This may result in another draw after resolution, so it's difficult to tell sometimes.
chesstoad Apr 24 @ 8:18pm 
It's my understanding that the melee bonus nevers goes above +2. With a librarian it should be +3 (1 for librarian, 1 for powerax, 1 for space wolf) but I do not see this, I see it as a +2. The same is the case for Space Wolf sgts. Is anyone else seeing this the same and I was wondering why it is?

Also, Charly, I just beat the Alarm Call with Space Wolves. And guess what? My LC goes down in his first melee encounter. It's a close match overall, surprised I was able to win, and I think it demonstrates how to use the rune priest effectively. I'll post it when I get the chance to edit it.
Homba Apr 24 @ 9:35pm 
I think Librarians (incl. Rune Priest) get a +1 in melee because they are librarians, not because of their force axe. Then the Rune Priest gets his Space Wolf +1 to melee, so he gets +2 in melee. The force axe can channel psy points into bonus like Datguy said. If it's a draw, however, this won't happen. The draw sticks. It's only if the Librarian loses, that the force pts are added. I recently had a situation that I think proved that if you have 1 psy pt remaining, that doesn't help - it won't improve a 1 pt melee loss to a draw! Not sure though.

The frost axe is a completely different wpn than the force axe, the frost axe has the same stats as the power sword as datguy observed above (which is: no bonus, but provides a parry - but never on a tie - not even a tie where it's 6-6 and a parry would likely make you win!).

In theory a +3 should be possible, there is no cap in any published rules that I know of. Space Wolf Sgt with Hammer or Claws would get +3. Space Wolf Captain with power sword = +3. Space Wolf Captain with Hammer or Claws = +4. (As yet, the Marine Captain has not been introduced in FC's adaptation. But my prediction is: he will be. Because you, me, and everyone else will buy that DLC.)
illitrate Apr 24 @ 10:51pm 
OMG a SW Captain with claws AND a grenade launcher? Forget the rest of squad, he'd be nearly invincible just by himself ! :)
Homba Apr 25 @ 7:42am 
Pretty hard to kill, though can be flanked to negate the bonuses, and theoretically vulnerable to ranged weapons. Would only be in the field for the toughest missions. Imagine those missions :D
datguy13 Apr 25 @ 11:35am 
Well, considering that there is only one Captain of the First Company of a Chapter who wears Terminator armor, I'd say he's likely to only deploy himself where the fighting is thickest and his ancient skills and battle wisdom is most needed. So yeah, you wouldn't see one often. =P
chesstoad Apr 25 @ 12:01pm 
So I have confirmed that at least for my game, the Space Wolf Sgt with power-sword is not working properly. He only has +2 in melee instead of +3. As I understand it he should have:
+1 for power sword
+1 for being a SGT
+1 for being a space wolf

Here is a screen-shot I took to confirm:
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/597034856143283194/A5F61A3B15CFFB5E18434C4C7C95A87567C7483E/

Can anyone please explain why he does not have +3 in melee?
Last edited by chesstoad; Apr 25 @ 12:02pm
Homba Apr 25 @ 12:14pm 
because a power sword does not grant a +1, it only provides a parry (as noted in above posts)
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