DC Universe Online

DC Universe Online

View Stats:
How Bizzah Feb 18, 2017 @ 11:50pm
Super-Man V Joker.
Who would likely win?
(Rules of engagement are as follows.
1.)Joker can't use any Kryptonite, because it wouldn't be fair. Literally anyone can kill superman with it.
2.)Joker can't use magic, not like he ever does, but still. It's the same reason he can't use kryptonite, anyone with a novice understanding of magic can mop the floor with super-man.
3.) Super-Man can't get aid from the Justice League. Super-Man could just call the aid of some other hero that could more easily handle the joker, defeats the entire point of this post. Why would Super-Man need to risk it when he could call someone like... The Creeper, or some other hero that's technically already broken?
4.) Joker can't make deals with any immortal beings. Think... the presence level strong. This includeds those that are roughly his level with plot and those that could be his level without it.)

This is an interesting match-up that's never really been explored. Sure, Super-Man has went up against the joker, but it's never because Bats needed his help for the joker.

Super-Man's victory over the Joker in the past is the same reason Marvel's Legion doesn't just turn Xaviers mind to mush or why Dormamu always loses to Dr.Strange, Plot.

My question is, let's assume that when Bat Man (Bat-Man?) went up against bane, he didn't just break his spine, he killed him. The joker, no longer being challenged, makes his move to Metropolis (Perhaps he worked out a deal with the Penguin or just got bored and left.)

Now, I honestly think super-man would eventually end up killing Joker, that's not really something to debate. However, I think the joker would break super-man long before that.

The joker isn't the kind of Villian that Super-Man is accustomed to. He doesn't care about public relations like Lex and he wouldn't see any joy in physically besting super-man like Darkseid and Doomsday, this is assuming he could.

He would play mind-games with him, target his softest parts. Unlike Lex, He would kill Louis and possibly even rape her before it. He would make Super-Man's mental torment long and painful. I don't think Super-Man would be prepared for the pyschological assault. The joker's sadisticly cunning and seems to have less of a moral compass than Luther. Or, to be more accurate, His compass is broken and he knows it.

The only reason Bat-Man handles The Joker so well is because he's already some what insane himself. In the back of his mind he has to know everything the joker and his gang do is because of him (Bat-Man) because he keeps sending him back to an asylum that seems to literally let people go when ever they please... Hmm... That's another topic on it's own, Is the Bat-Man truly a hero or just a villian with a hero complex...

The joker's greatest weapon in his arsenal is his unpredictablity. Brainiac is smart and Darkseid is clever, but you know what both of them are going to do before they actually do it. You might not know exactly, but you get the general understanding. They are both predictable. The joker could just gas a couple of schools for the giggles or... rob a bank, or go on a killing spree. ( I almost put " Or make a deal with Lucifer Morningstar" But it would of conflicted with rule 4 and there is nothing the joker could offer him that he'd want nor do i think the joker would even know how to contact him. I think you can understand what I'm getting at. The point is he's unpredictable.)

Then there is the joker's "Laughing Gas", this is where things get interesting for me. There are some depictions of super-man not needing air and then there are other ones showing him slowly suffocating, if he actually needs air then wouldn't the laughing gas do something to him? If not kill him than leave his face disfigured? (This part has nothing to do with the "Battle" it's just me asking someone more versed in the DC canon if super-man needs air or not.)

To sum my post up, I think super-man would kill the joker, but I think the joker would pychologially break him before that happens. So, the real question is, would the super-man that kills him be the same super-man that we all know and love or would be a insane husk of a man that puts the joker himself to shame.

Sorry for any grammatical and/or spelling mistakes. It's roughly 3 A.M as of writing this.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
joker would almost instantly piss off superman beyond belief with his various Gadgets both annoying and extremely explosive joker would laugh his head off then this would happen.
http://static.dnaindia.com/images/cache/1899434.jpg

I'm all for the Joker but when super alien from another world comes along theres not a whole lot you can do but laugh and call cheats.




if Joker can use Kryptonite then i present this video. ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sKSmFtYZ0k
Last edited by Ω Skyrim Spriggan Ω; Mar 7, 2017 @ 8:42pm
MTOKA Mar 7, 2017 @ 11:25pm 
Originally posted by Forcedminer:
joker would almost instantly piss off superman beyond belief with his various Gadgets both annoying and extremely explosive joker would laugh his head off then this would happen.
http://static.dnaindia.com/images/cache/1899434.jpg

I'm all for the Joker but when super alien from another world comes along theres not a whole lot you can do but laugh and call cheats.




if Joker can use Kryptonite then i present this video. ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sKSmFtYZ0k
First rule...
Lucky Mar 8, 2017 @ 1:02am 
"Well, I'll just get someone else to use Kryptonite and/or Magic." - Joker, yesterday.

(I'm not trolling, I believe this is the actual answer you're looking for.)
Last edited by Lucky; Mar 8, 2017 @ 1:13am
MTOKA Mar 9, 2017 @ 2:17am 
Originally posted by Strontium Dingo:
"Well, I'll just get someone else to use Kryptonite and/or Magic." - Joker, yesterday.

(I'm not trolling, I believe this is the actual answer you're looking for.)
Kryptonite alone has the ability to kill Super Man though....
Xiane Mar 12, 2017 @ 6:40am 
Tossing aside the inclusion of kryptonite Joker can't physically beat superman. However Injustice showed as a situation where Joker can beat Superman on a moral/mental level. Kill Lois Lane, nuke metropolis off the face of the earth, kill his (earth) parents. Watch superman flip his proverbial crap. Joker wins, even if supe lierally rips his head off.
MTOKA Mar 12, 2017 @ 4:55pm 
Originally posted by Xiane:
Tossing aside the inclusion of kryptonite Joker can't physically beat superman. However Injustice showed as a situation where Joker can beat Superman on a moral/mental level. Kill Lois Lane, nuke metropolis off the face of the earth, kill his (earth) parents. Watch superman flip his proverbial crap. Joker wins, even if supe lierally rips his head off.
Not relevent.
How Bizzah May 25, 2017 @ 1:35am 
Originally posted by MTOKA:
Originally posted by Strontium Dingo:
"Well, I'll just get someone else to use Kryptonite and/or Magic." - Joker, yesterday.

(I'm not trolling, I believe this is the actual answer you're looking for.)
Kryptonite alone has the ability to kill Super Man though....
As does magic. In a lot of ways super-man is like the hulk, the better your understanding of the universe the more of a glass cannon he becomes.
How Bizzah May 25, 2017 @ 1:41am 
Originally posted by MTOKA:
Originally posted by Xiane:
Tossing aside the inclusion of kryptonite Joker can't physically beat superman. However Injustice showed as a situation where Joker can beat Superman on a moral/mental level. Kill Lois Lane, nuke metropolis off the face of the earth, kill his (earth) parents. Watch superman flip his proverbial crap. Joker wins, even if supe lierally rips his head off.
Not relevent.
How is it not relevent? I stated in my own post that physically super-man would destroy the joker, but not after the joker had the last laugh. Super-man would kill him, no debating that, but at the same time is the man that kills him even the same person anymore? We saw that with the killing joke that it didnt take much to break the man that would become the joker, now imagine that with plus the wight of the entire world on your shoulders. As i stated, the joker is a different kind of enemy, one that Super-man has little understanding of. Most of super-man's enemies are more along the line... "I'm stronger than you, let me best you in a match of physical might" joker isn't like that. Even if he had the power to rivial super-man, i don't think he'd be like that. I suspect the joker would eventually get bored and stop using his power all together, much to his own downfall.
MTOKA May 25, 2017 @ 3:02am 
Originally posted by 1001YellowDaffodils:
Originally posted by MTOKA:
Not relevent.
How is it not relevent? I stated in my own post that physically super-man would destroy the joker, but not after the joker had the last laugh. Super-man would kill him, no debating that, but at the same time is the man that kills him even the same person anymore? We saw that with the killing joke that it didnt take much to break the man that would become the joker, now imagine that with plus the wight of the entire world on your shoulders. As i stated, the joker is a different kind of enemy, one that Super-man has little understanding of. Most of super-man's enemies are more along the line... "I'm stronger than you, let me best you in a match of physical might" joker isn't like that. Even if he had the power to rivial super-man, i don't think he'd be like that. I suspect the joker would eventually get bored and stop using his power all together, much to his own downfall.
Quite the opposite actually.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Emperor-Joker

TL:DR
Joker steals Mr. Mxyzptlk's powers and recreates the universe in his image. JL are a group of baddies, and Super-man has to fix it.
GrandMajora May 31, 2017 @ 1:48pm 
Joker not being able to use Kryptonite because it's 'unfair' is complete BS. Superman only has 3 weaknesses - Kryptonite, Magic, and Red Sun Radiation. Seeing as how Joker is highly unlikely to get his hands on the last 2 options, that leaves Kryptonite as the only way he could take him down! The fear gas that Joker used on Superman in the Injustice games was also laced with Kryptonite particles, which is revealed in the comic book associated with the game. It wouldn't have affected him otherwise.


Superman not getting aid from the justice league is also laughable. Supes doesn't NEED aid from the justice league to take out Joker. Batman takes down the Joker on a constant basis, and Batman has openly admitted that Superman could kill him with ease. In fact, even kryptonite wouldn't protect him, since all Superman has to do is fly out of its effective range and snipe him with telescopic heat vision!



Oh, you also ruled out magic and making deals with godly beings. So basically, you want a completely ordinary human to tackle Superman who is pretty much invulnerable to everything except what I listed above? This is obviously a troll post!
Last edited by GrandMajora; May 31, 2017 @ 1:54pm
How Bizzah Jun 1, 2017 @ 2:37pm 
Originally posted by MTOKA:
Originally posted by 1001YellowDaffodils:
How is it not relevent? I stated in my own post that physically super-man would destroy the joker, but not after the joker had the last laugh. Super-man would kill him, no debating that, but at the same time is the man that kills him even the same person anymore? We saw that with the killing joke that it didnt take much to break the man that would become the joker, now imagine that with plus the wight of the entire world on your shoulders. As i stated, the joker is a different kind of enemy, one that Super-man has little understanding of. Most of super-man's enemies are more along the line... "I'm stronger than you, let me best you in a match of physical might" joker isn't like that. Even if he had the power to rivial super-man, i don't think he'd be like that. I suspect the joker would eventually get bored and stop using his power all together, much to his own downfall.
Quite the opposite actually.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Emperor-Joker

TL:DR
Joker steals Mr. Mxyzptlk's powers and recreates the universe in his image. JL are a group of baddies, and Super-man has to fix it.
I said no o

Originally posted by MTOKA:
Originally posted by 1001YellowDaffodils:
How is it not relevent? I stated in my own post that physically super-man would destroy the joker, but not after the joker had the last laugh. Super-man would kill him, no debating that, but at the same time is the man that kills him even the same person anymore? We saw that with the killing joke that it didnt take much to break the man that would become the joker, now imagine that with plus the wight of the entire world on your shoulders. As i stated, the joker is a different kind of enemy, one that Super-man has little understanding of. Most of super-man's enemies are more along the line... "I'm stronger than you, let me best you in a match of physical might" joker isn't like that. Even if he had the power to rivial super-man, i don't think he'd be like that. I suspect the joker would eventually get bored and stop using his power all together, much to his own downfall.
Quite the opposite actually.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Emperor-Joker

TL:DR
Joker steals Mr. Mxyzptlk's powers and recreates the universe in his image. JL are a group of baddies, and Super-man has to fix it.
I said no deals with omnipotent beings, Joker could just make a deal with Lucifer Morningstar and BAM, Super-man is dead and the Justice league is completely destroyed. Or, the prescence could step in and stop everything from happening, likely wouldn't, he's never been one for intervention, but still. We're dabbling in what-if's, it's unlikely lucifer would ever agree to a deal with the joker and it's unlikely the joker could ever even reach him to start with.

What you pointed out was plot based. It's the same reason legion never killed the X-men/Brotherhood and why Connie was able to trick/defeat lucifer morning-star. Teh good guy has to win because writers are scared to gamble with a safe bet. It's kind of why they have multiple universes, that way they don't have to commit to anything. Super-man is dead in one universe and alive and well in another.

Honestly though, I doubt super-man would be able to hold his own against any creators. (There's a word for them they use on comic-vine, I'm just drawing blank...) He's not even the strongest living Kryptoninian, That title is Sodam Yat's. Not only does he have the power of super-man but also the strength of the green lanterns, even though he no longer is one, he still knows how to use the rings to their full effect. Kind of ironic though, the rings are pseudo magic and Sodam, being a kryptoninan, has no restiance or affinty for magic.

Not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the writers for letting super-man win still (I'm assuming that he does, for some reason my browser would not load the page, i run firefox so it should.) It would make sense in that situation. Super-man is at least of average intellect and the proper comic superman (Not the Snyder ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) is of good temperment. Joker, while being highly intellegent, has an ego and due to his affinity for jokes and punch-lines can be tricked.

I'm just saying, I'd prefer to keep any creator level beings out of the fight. I see no reason why any of them would intervene for either of them. At his best super-man is just a minor fly for them to swat down and the joker would be a short lived curiosity.

I could see one of them maybe making them fight eachother for their enjoyment, but I suspect it would turn into Joker and Super-man striking up a short-lived alliance as they try to escape the unescapable arena. Actually, that seems like a decent comic plot. Could even lead to more back story for the joker. The killing joke gave some, but not a lot.

Joker and Super-man have to escape Lucifers arena, meanwhile the Justice league and Jokers goons are given "Divine" hints on where they are, the Justice League thinks it's the prescence but come to find out it was Mxyzptlk pretending to be him because he found more joy in watching the joker and super-man overcome lucifer and annoy him.

Connie, catching wise to the trick, tells lucifer that Mxyzptlk has been helping them all along and while the two of them fight, justice league and joker manage to make their escape.

Issue here is what is to stop Lucifer or Mxyzptlk from just hunting them down or erasing them from existince. My theory here is the speed-force would stop them from altering time. It is on par with the prescence in terms of power and has even less to do with anything, however it has shown a huge dislike towards the altering of time. At least the "New" speed-force anyways. The old one I don't think was actually "Alive" per say.

I'd just rather not bring up anything that strong regardless because, coming from an amatuer writer, it feels like a copout. Even if the being of such power is losing, it still feels dumb and forced. I'd rather think that being of such power aren't good or evil, they don't have to be or, in the case of the prescence and speed force, don't really care either way and tend to ignore the universe around them for the most part.
How Bizzah Jun 1, 2017 @ 2:58pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Joker not being able to use Kryptonite because it's 'unfair' is complete BS. Superman only has 3 weaknesses - Kryptonite, Magic, and Red Sun Radiation. Seeing as how Joker is highly unlikely to get his hands on the last 2 options, that leaves Kryptonite as the only way he could take him down! The fear gas that Joker used on Superman in the Injustice games was also laced with Kryptonite particles, which is revealed in the comic book associated with the game. It wouldn't have affected him otherwise.


Superman not getting aid from the justice league is also laughable. Supes doesn't NEED aid from the justice league to take out Joker. Batman takes down the Joker on a constant basis, and Batman has openly admitted that Superman could kill him with ease. In fact, even kryptonite wouldn't protect him, since all Superman has to do is fly out of its effective range and snipe him with telescopic heat vision!



Oh, you also ruled out magic and making deals with godly beings. So basically, you want a completely ordinary human to tackle Superman who is pretty much invulnerable to everything except what I listed above? This is obviously a troll post!
I never said that Joker would win, Infact I stated mutiple times he wouldn't. However, I said the joker would break him long before that. The man that's left after he kills the joker wouldn't even be the same super-man. Lex is more striaght forward with his attacks and has a face to keep "Clean". yes, he could likely kill super-man, in fact i find it odd that he didn't yet apocalypse did. but, he's predictable. He wouldn't bomb a school or rape then murder louis or... beat his earth parents to death and make him watch. These are things the joker would do and do with a smile. Joker is a different beast with a goal that he makes up on the spot. Super-man couldn't even pressure harley into telling him where he is, not because she wouldn't, I know she would, but because the joker really doesn't care what happens to her, as he's shown several times.

In regards to the fighting game gas, as much as i don't want to consider them canon, I can at least agree with it. There's been several times where super-man has been depicted both needing air and not needing it, it's not really clear on that. So, I'm willing to give you that as a win.

But, the reason i said no kryptonite is because super-man can be toppled over by anyone with it, he turns into a glass cannon. The joker could easily get his hand on it and end him quickly, but it's unlikely the joker would. Joker would want to toy with him, have his "Fun" with him. If he were sane he would outright kill him, likely with no issue since magic/magical items aren't hard to come by and kryptonite clearly isn't exactly "Rare". Not that they would let the joker kill super-man, plot would kick in and some dumb nonsense like "Not real kryptonite" or the JLA steps in to save supes. I'm also not trying to imply i could write a better story than the folk at DC. I might be able to than modern DC, all they want to do is cliched nonsense of SJW propaganda. But old school, proper DC, no. It's not wise to kill off your bread and butter, and super-man is just that. Than again, so is the joker... But, if the joker dies, he could just come back with the Black lanterns. Would it still be the same joker? If skillfully written, yeah. He could be a flesh eating zombie and still be the old joker. After all, the joker has been a goon for dracula a couple different times and he never felt like he wasn't the joker.
MTOKA Jun 1, 2017 @ 11:19pm 
Originally posted by 1001YellowDaffodils:
Originally posted by MTOKA:
Quite the opposite actually.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Emperor-Joker

TL:DR
Joker steals Mr. Mxyzptlk's powers and recreates the universe in his image. JL are a group of baddies, and Super-man has to fix it.
I said no o

Originally posted by MTOKA:
Quite the opposite actually.
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-Emperor-Joker

TL:DR
Joker steals Mr. Mxyzptlk's powers and recreates the universe in his image. JL are a group of baddies, and Super-man has to fix it.
I said no deals with omnipotent beings, Joker could just make a deal with Lucifer Morningstar and BAM, Super-man is dead and the Justice league is completely destroyed. Or, the prescence could step in and stop everything from happening, likely wouldn't, he's never been one for intervention, but still. We're dabbling in what-if's, it's unlikely lucifer would ever agree to a deal with the joker and it's unlikely the joker could ever even reach him to start with.

What you pointed out was plot based. It's the same reason legion never killed the X-men/Brotherhood and why Connie was able to trick/defeat lucifer morning-star. Teh good guy has to win because writers are scared to gamble with a safe bet. It's kind of why they have multiple universes, that way they don't have to commit to anything. Super-man is dead in one universe and alive and well in another.

Honestly though, I doubt super-man would be able to hold his own against any creators. (There's a word for them they use on comic-vine, I'm just drawing blank...) He's not even the strongest living Kryptoninian, That title is Sodam Yat's. Not only does he have the power of super-man but also the strength of the green lanterns, even though he no longer is one, he still knows how to use the rings to their full effect. Kind of ironic though, the rings are pseudo magic and Sodam, being a kryptoninan, has no restiance or affinty for magic.

Not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the writers for letting super-man win still (I'm assuming that he does, for some reason my browser would not load the page, i run firefox so it should.) It would make sense in that situation. Super-man is at least of average intellect and the proper comic superman (Not the Snyder ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) is of good temperment. Joker, while being highly intellegent, has an ego and due to his affinity for jokes and punch-lines can be tricked.

I'm just saying, I'd prefer to keep any creator level beings out of the fight. I see no reason why any of them would intervene for either of them. At his best super-man is just a minor fly for them to swat down and the joker would be a short lived curiosity.

I could see one of them maybe making them fight eachother for their enjoyment, but I suspect it would turn into Joker and Super-man striking up a short-lived alliance as they try to escape the unescapable arena. Actually, that seems like a decent comic plot. Could even lead to more back story for the joker. The killing joke gave some, but not a lot.

Joker and Super-man have to escape Lucifers arena, meanwhile the Justice league and Jokers goons are given "Divine" hints on where they are, the Justice League thinks it's the prescence but come to find out it was Mxyzptlk pretending to be him because he found more joy in watching the joker and super-man overcome lucifer and annoy him.

Connie, catching wise to the trick, tells lucifer that Mxyzptlk has been helping them all along and while the two of them fight, justice league and joker manage to make their escape.

Issue here is what is to stop Lucifer or Mxyzptlk from just hunting them down or erasing them from existince. My theory here is the speed-force would stop them from altering time. It is on par with the prescence in terms of power and has even less to do with anything, however it has shown a huge dislike towards the altering of time. At least the "New" speed-force anyways. The old one I don't think was actually "Alive" per say.

I'd just rather not bring up anything that strong regardless because, coming from an amatuer writer, it feels like a copout. Even if the being of such power is losing, it still feels dumb and forced. I'd rather think that being of such power aren't good or evil, they don't have to be or, in the case of the prescence and speed force, don't really care either way and tend to ignore the universe around them for the most part.

Wasn't a deal through. . . Mxyzptlk Didn't give his power up willingly.

The Arc with David Haller happened in 616 though. . . Circumstancial or not, what happened was Canonical to the Marvel Universe.

"Teh good guy has to win because writers are scared to gamble with a safe bet"
^^ is totally false. Marvel has done this on many occasions; Just look at spider-man renew your vows, Or the Superior spiderman arc, And old man wolverine.
Last edited by MTOKA; Jun 1, 2017 @ 11:55pm
Lynx Jun 3, 2017 @ 6:41am 
joker with teleporter, superman's dead.
MTOKA Jun 3, 2017 @ 4:05pm 
Originally posted by Lynx_Legend:
joker with teleporter, superman's dead.
You'll need to ellaborate.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Feb 18, 2017 @ 11:50pm
Posts: 15