Card City Nights 2

Card City Nights 2

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Initial feedback from competitive card game player
Feedback window in-game is a little small so going to type it out here.
Loved CCN1 and love what CCN2 has to offer so far

I didn't understand the mechanics of the game from just the tutorial
-What I feel should have been covered:
--Activated cards remain activated even without connecting 3
--Connecting new cards to activated cards activates new card
--Cards have different color arrows

-Quality of life stuff in the Deckbuilder:
--Mouse wheel scroll zoom-in function from decklist
--Right-click to jump to the page with the card from decklist
--Temporarily add more than the max number of cards allowed in the deck
----Should be able to be saved but wouldn't be playable similar to a current <24 card deck
--Arrows for arrow filter are in an unintuitive order.
----Organizing it in a square shape instead of a horizontal line would be MUCH easier to use
--Make Space Nörd searchable with "Space Nord"

-Turn timer is short and countdown hard to see (I'm sure this will be changed)
-Very little turn anticipation because of the replacement draw mechanic instead of drawing at the beginning of the turn
-Stand-alone potato card shouldn't redraw a card (why does it exist in the first place?)
--Fasen potato should be as-is
--Drawing at the beginning of the turn would nerf potato significantly

Card design seems really wacky and fun as expected.
I'm looking forward to having to use the different types of cards and decks while building up a collection when the game comes out.
I really appreciate that the devs pay so much attention to the forums.

Not fully refined but pretty strong burn deck I've been using.
Goddess Buster x2
Goddess of Explosions x2
Jenny Fox x2
Fire Mace x2
That Guy x2
Cyber Jenny x1
Fire Sword x2
Orka x2
Benny x2
Helios x2
Potato x2
Metonym x1
Dumped X x1
Simulacrum x1

Alternatives (minus=drop, plus=add): -Jenny Fox, -Benny, +Dynamite, +Alexander, +Jenny Shark, +Jenny Flower, +Space Nörd X, +Business Casual Man

edit: attempted to fix formatting :/
edit2: updated decklist
edit3: added 1 more for tutorial, removed keyword in deckbuilder
Last edited by potwasher; Jun 24 @ 1:25pm
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Showing 1-15 of 34 comments
Dumped X and Simulacrum X are pretty much mandatory, Heart is really meh.

Dumped X / Simulacrum X can even "deal damage" (notice the quotes) by removing stuff like Princess Remedy or Business Casual Man, even if that's not their only use. Dumped X and Simulacrum X are so polyvalent and without any drawback that I consider these to be staples.

You also need Metonym, 2 damage on drop is absurd.
Last edited by mantidactyle; Jun 24 @ 12:29pm
potwasher Jun 24 @ 12:39pm 
Completely missed Metonym.
Dumped X and Simulacrum X seem strong for sure. Haven't tried them out yet!
Was trying out Heart as 1x just because having an effect without playing a card seemed really strong after playing potato and Cyber Jenny. Diagonal arrows are pretty good with the deck, but no resolve and countdown 1 is pretty mediocre.
Potato cards and Bomb cards exist for "speed up" the deck, if you played already games like Magic The Gathering or Yugioh, you will know cards that "draws other cards" are not a waste.

Just see: There is 24 cards in deck, dump 2 potatos and 3 bombs, there is a high chance you draw 1 -3 of those cards, than meas 1-3 turns up to get the vital cards you need for win.
I know its purpose and that it's strong. In fact it's so strong that I was questioning why it would be put it in the game in the first place.
If I thought it was a waste I wouldn't have put it in my deck :)
Mickmane Jun 24 @ 1:03pm 
Potwasher, explanation of keywords IS in the deck builder, just right-click a card in the list of available cards and read.

I agree on some of the other interface stuff, but will make my own post about it.

I have no idea what you mean by "-Very little turn anticipation because of the replacement draw mechanic instead of drawing at the beginning of the turn"

What's wrong with potato? Someone else mentioned casual business man was too strong. I think the time we have is too short to learn all cards and come up with the best possible decks, so we're testing for game functionality, not card balance. Anything mentioned on this or that card has naturally not been long in testing.

And if this beta is as short as the first one, there won't be enough time for some decent insights into card balance either.

I also look forward to learning the cards little by little in the singleplayer campaign we'll get in the full release. :) (Most excited about getting back into a Card City Nights atmosphere, though. I'd really like to run around and interact with people there.)

I don't know what burn deck means. (I never know what terms for decks mean, if they don't actually state what's being done, like damage on placement and similar.)
Casual Business Man is fine tbh. It does make Dumped X and Simulacrum mandatory though, but I'm not too concerned with it after -only- 13 hours of gameplay. Sure it can destroy you when you have no answer to it early game, but the punishment when you do have an answer to it is so big if your opponent committed their deck to self-damage makes it not-so-broken imho.

And yeah, it is too soon to say x card is too strong, but I do have an issue with Potato in that it doesn't add anything to the game, except shortening the duels and making Burn decks stronger without actually improving the game, because it doesn't reward good decision making (simply because there's no decision in the first place, it activates when you top-deck it).
Last edited by mantidactyle; Jun 24 @ 1:22pm
Oops somehow missed that part of the keywords in deckbuilder while writing the feedback. I'll remove it from the original post.

"Very little turn anticipation" means I'm not as excited for when my next turn comes around because there won't be any new cards in my hand. One exciting part of most card games is drawing something significant from the top of your deck (topdeck).

Potato is insanely broken from a card game perspective.
There are no downsides to having the card in your deck if you don't deck out. Thinning out your deck as Etherdreamer mentioned should be mentioned, but drawing into key cards doesn't really matter unless there were a few cards with much stronger card power or you're trying to draw into a specific multi-card combo.
Potato takes no resources to use.
However the worst part of it is that you can randomly deal an extra 0-2 damage in any given game just depending on whether you draw the card. That is not healthy for any multiplayer card game.

Burn is a card game term referring to direct damage to the opponent from hand. The deck I posted has a lot of cards that have effects like "placement: deal 1 damage"
Last edited by potwasher; Jun 24 @ 1:24pm
I wanted to edit my previous post to add Cyber Jenny which is also problematic for the same reason as Potato (and it should be read as "deal 3 damage"), but at least it doesn't reduce your deck size by 1, which I guess makes it sliiiiiiiightly less absurd than Potato.
oc this is a beta, there is a lot in way than need to be added.
Burn deck means constant damage, you will get several "dots" of damage all the turns from those type of decks, not like waiting for a activate effect, or winning by fatigue or an "exodia" (Apathethic frog) deck.
Mickmane Jun 24 @ 1:34pm 
If you only get to draw your card at the start of the next turn, you don't get to decide what to play while the other player is doing their turn, and need time to see what you got and what to do with it. I prefer to not need that extra time. (Your turn anticipation doesn't apply to me either. I'm busy thinking about what to do next.)

I don't think potato is broken. There's still a decision to put it into the deck or not. Besides, it's silly fun, just like the rest of the game! :) I think a bit of crazy random fits in just fine.

Re: burn deck, I think I'll stick to what's happening rather than learning odd terms. :)
Lol that´s not an new or odd therms, players from different games use those terms.
Last edited by Etherdreamer; Jun 24 @ 1:44pm
reallyjoel  [developer] Jun 24 @ 1:52pm 
This is a great thread that I will read through more carefully after the weekend! Love hearing your thoughts
qbicfeet Jun 24 @ 3:25pm 
Gonna dump some feedback myself.

UI, UX and visuals:
- Absolutely agree with OP that the arrows filter in the deck should be organized in a square formation.
- The flashing borders on the card portraits that indicate whether a card is active or not can be hard to see at a quick glance (especially when a card is caged). Maybe the active state could be indicated in some other, more clear and immediately noticeable way?
- I'm assuming that this is going to change in the final game, but one-way cycling through deck icons by clicking instead of arrows for next/previous icons is a bit annoying.
- The texture filtering used to scale down card portraits, fonts and other UI elements makes cards look a bit pixelated and less "smooth" than their full-sized previews (difficult to describe, but it results in weird artifacts that are especially noticeable on portraits on cards like Bazooka Turnip or the card name for Business Casual Man X).
- Also assuming that this will be in the final game, but if not, some kind of turn counter in the corner during a match could be neat, just so you know for how long a match has been going.
- It would be neat if you could be able to see cards in an opponent's hand that have already been revealed when they were drawn (Heart, Cyber Jenny etc).

Balance and gameplay feedback:
- While I don't use it in my decks, I agree that Potato is a bit too strong and makes burner decks too viable.
- Business Casual Man (and BCM X) are a bit too effective. You can have up to 3 of them in your deck and they last a whopping 4 turns each, and given that there are so many strong self-damage cards in the game like Plasma Hydra or Goddess of Explosions you can make quick work of your opponent once you have one activated on the field.
--- I don't know anything about balancing, but I would suggest reducing them to 3 turns each and/or upgrading BCM X from gold to foil. Arrows could also be moved around and reduced, but arrows barely matter with cards like Passel or Key X on your deck.
- Cyber Jenny is a bit too strong and is a safe pick for practically any deck. 3 separate sources of 1 damage + arrows in all directions + 2 turns to resolve (giving you the opportunity to link another spy card) is a lot for a single card.
- This is very opinionated, but the board resolving cards in a left-to-right, top-to-bottom manner feels a bit unintuitive and against the spirit of the game. I think each space on the board should be equally valuable.
- Where is the effect that turns cards 180 degrees? :P

On a side note, this game is exactly what I had hoped for and more and I'm already forward to the full release.
ScouSin Jun 24 @ 10:18pm 
Something I'm going to be very curious about, is what we will actually be allowed to throw in decks come launch. If the rules are the same as what we have now, yeah legendaries will need to be looked at pretty closely. In CCN1 I liked how only one legendary type card was allowed per deck, and I think that helped to keep decks well-rounded, since rares in that game weren't super OP (though they were quite good). But even if that route is taken, everyone will just just a card liked Dumped X, because of course you should put that card in your deck. Poof your opponent's super powerful card before it activates? Yes! Some of the other legendaries (Tosca X) seem extremely weak by comparison, even if you try to build a deck around their mechanic.

Looking at the forums right now, it seems like the big deck types that people are having success with are control (mass silence/cage/heal/add to own deck), burn, and golden apathetic frog, though that last one might just be a lethal joke deck that got out of hand. My first thoughts when looking at the cards available, is why anyone would bother with any card with "Resolve: Deal 1 damage." You mean you want me to put a card down, spend two more turns linking two other cards up to it, if I can even get the right arrows, and then wait for the card to finish ticking down just to deal 1 damage? The other cards will do stuff too, and you can add stuff to the chain sure, but no thanks. Even on a common that is a super weak card. It would have to have a ton of arrows, do something in addition to that, or cards like fire sword gotta be adjusted.

In CCN1 cards like fire sword were much, much more balanced for two primary reasons:

1. You had to keep your board clear or you lose.

2. The free damage couldn't be used to disable an opponent's card, which was a huge benefit to linking attack cards in CCN1.

In CCN2 right now though, both of the above concerns don't exist. What do I care if I drop fire swords in front of my opponent's arrows and eventually fill the board? I'M not removing that card, pffft, you kidding me? You remove it.
Mickmane Jun 25 @ 12:52pm 
Originally posted by reallyjoel:
This is a great thread that I will read through more carefully after the weekend! Love hearing your thoughts

Then I'll add my thoughts here.

Btw, I'm not competitiviewlsx what-was-the-word? Don't even know how to spelll it. :) I play for fun, don't mind losing, and the idea of tournaments destroys the silly fun atmosphere for me, so I will ignore the option. :)

On to the notes I made...

While I found a way to adjust sound and music while actually playing a game, I'd like a way to do so before that, please. :)

Inviting friends oddly sometimes worked, sometimes not, both ways, via Steam and via invite code. It's very possible I did something wrong. What are others' experiences? (I see a lot about cards and decks, and some on deck builder, but little on game functionality. Maybe you devs just got a lot of direct feedback.)

I liked the option to decide on the size of your deck in the first game, not having some set number. I hope you put that back into the game.

Deck Builder:

New deck builder is very nice!

Please add mouse wheel support to scroll stuff, like right/left where the cards are shown, and up/down in the list of the current deck at the right.

Please allow the deck builder to go over the card limit, so I can first dump in all cards I like, and then remove stuff until the deck fits the limit.

An indication somewhere how many pages there are for the filtered (or not filtered) cards shown would be nice.

Ideally, I'd really like a way to tag some cards as favorite for quick access. Or maybe a storage deck from which I can pick cards and add it to the current deck. (Again to just hold cards I like, from which I can then pick something for the deck to use. Or just to remember them - my memory is terrible.)

Can we please have a filter for red and blue arrows each?

Timer:

Can you show the time left to decide the entire time? The brief warning that it's soon up is so sudden, and no idea how much time is left until that pops up.

Can you make it an option to turn off the timer, either only with friend games (for those that agree to it), or just an optiom for the possible games, with/without timer (not sure the latter is such a good idea, I mainly just want to be able to play without timer with a friend who agrees to it).

Playing:

It would be nice if cards that have been revealed were lying face up in the opponent's hand, to right-click and read, or just keep in mind.

As someone mentioned, turning cards upside down effect is missing, would be nice if it were put back into the game. :)

I agree with some people saying that the need to combine arrows is a bit small, when I can just dump direct damage on the board and merely maybe connect something. (Reading what other people comment, I even think I am connnecting more than I would have to - I like the linking arrows part!)

As I mentioned in some comments before, I don't think a short beta is enough time to really figure out card balance. Besides wanting a deck full of Cyber Jennys ( ;P ) and a vague idea that healing is a bit underwhelming (too slow on some cards, too random on for example the heart), I can't really say anything about it.

----

Thanks a lot for making the game and letting us betatest. Sooo looking forward to the full game!
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