Edge of Space

Edge of Space

View Stats:
TrollofReason Nov 25, 2014 @ 11:39am
This is extremely frustrating. (player feedback and suggested solutions to what doesn't work)
I hate to complain, especially since this game was given to me as a gift, but it's in early access so, hopefully, things can be changed for the better quickly.

First off, the workbench. I spent hours of not making any progress trying to get the workbench to work; looking up controls and trawling forums only to find out that I need to make a "base" first. This made my jaw clench because during the tutorial (which was good, by the way, keep it), I noticed one glaring problem with making a base first: I didn't want to.

Why didn't I want to make a base? Because mining is, in this or ANY game with non-minion/unautomated mining, a tedious and un-fun proposition. Now, I'm going to make a comparisson here, and bring up Starbound. Starbound's mining is awful because mining and manual geoforming is awful, but it's less awful than in Terarria, MineCraft, and EoS. In Starbound, you can quickly excavate a pit, collect the resources, and get to building. I can't do that in EoS, the mining is slow and painful in EoS, and the resource/blueprint handling is... I'll get to that later, but suffice to say, it's rotten carp.

So, I build a base like anyone who's ever played a 2D craft-mining-RP-adventure platformer enjoying player would. That is to say, I make an enclosed dirt hovel near to my spawn point and placed my stupidly expensive base node and my stupidly massive workbench down.

It didn't work, and I closed the game.

Fast forward to this morning, and I look through more forums. Apparently, there are specific, refined building materials that I need to use to actually make a base. Again, I feel my jaw tighten because this was never explained to me, and it never actually occured to me that I'd even be able to refine stuff on my own without some kind of static infrastructure in place. Y'know, something like a SMELTER or an actual REFINERY thing. Nope! I just need to consume 3 or 4 base construction chips and presto! I can magically bake stone into bricks or whatever.

Fortunately, it's a 6-into-10 exchange, so actually building with refined materials wasn't so bad. In fact, it was downright enjoyable! I like building in this game! It's fast and intuitive. Torches are stupidly large, but then so is everything else, so who cares? It's fluid and responsive to build. I can hold down the mouse and write out a wall at the pace of my movement! That's AMAZING, and I wish other games like this would do it.

So, I get my base running, doors, oversized torches and everything and I finally get my workbench running. After two days, hours of frustration and wasted effort, I break into the second tier of crafting. Only to run, face first, into needing an outfitting station just to increase the size of my inventory.

If this was painful and laborious to read, imagine how awful it was to play. Okay? I want you to-I want you to just think about that. The above anecdote was a small SAGA, okay? It was my Saga of The Workbench. I needed a SAGA to figure out how to work with the workbench. I shouldn't have needed a saga!

Let's count out the steps needed to get a workbench going, shall we?

Mine 30 dirt.
Mine 30 mud.
Mine 30 clay.
Mine 30 rock.
Mine 15-20 move of any of the above resources (making sure that each is at least kept within parcels of 5) for data chips.
Make data chips.
Consume data chips.
Construct a base node.
Construction a workbench.
Mine additional materials for refined structure blocks.
Mine 12 more blocks for a torch and a door.
Make a torch.
Make a door.
Refine your building materials.
Construct your base with the refined building blocks.
Place your door.
Place your torch.
Place your base node.
Place your workbench.

That's 19 steps just to get a workbench up and going. That's a lot of steps! That's a lot of mining! And you can only mine 1 block at a time!

Mining is, as stated, slow and painful, the range of the laser pick notwithstanding. The range of the laser pick is NICE, okay? I approve of that, but it's too damn slow for only mining out one block at a time. I understand that it's the basic tool, and I bet that there are better ones right around the corner, but I have NO interest in mining out one block at a time for a better tool if it's going to be like this. Again, I touch upon Starbound for at least attempting to make something that's never worked well into something viable in that Starbound introduces a side-grade system. Nothing, technically, is more flexible or useful than the starting handheld mining beamer in that game. It's got a great reach, fantastic control, and can mine/gather ANYTHING... but it's slow and it only excavates out a 2x2 grid, which makes you want to grab a pick as soon as you can because it's faster and mines out a 3x3. The trade of range and control is welcome, because in return you're getting SPEED.

Also, nothing in Starbound requires me slowly mining out more than 100 blocks of ANYTHING, last I checked. Which brings us to the next thing that doesn't work in EoS very well and needs to change, and that is: resources.

Let me just state, right now, that I have no problem with the current regime of having, like, resources not be pigeonholed into specific, single-use catagories (copper cna only be used for copper stuff! And, no, space-age alloys don't use copper anymore! ;D en-joy your trash metal!). I like that materials and blocks have, like, properties to them and that you can swap out one type of block for another type of block so long as they share the right properties. But... why do I need specific amounts of things that are, really, just the same? Mud is wet or chemical-ladden dirt, clay is dense dirt with complex organic compounds binding it together, stone is dirt with strong chemical bonds but no complex organic compounds. All of thso materials have the "mineral" property, and it's the minerals that I'm after, so why do I specifically need 30 blocks of mud AND 30 blocks of dirt? Why can't I just use 60 blocks of whatever? What's stopping me from being stupid and using 30 blocks of aluminum? You have a resource categorization system that promotes cross-utility crafting! USE IT!

So, yeah, in short, the whole "home base makes things work" concept needs to be scrapped entirely (the terrain is much too vertical for a non-mobile base structure, anyway), the starting tool needs to be better at what it does or better alternatives need to be presented sooner, the chip system is counter-intuitive and counter productive, and resources need to be a LOT more flexible. I could understand why specifical elemental resources or refined alloys could be single-use, but things like dirt and clay and stone? No, that's not kosher.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
MoonlightEmber Nov 25, 2014 @ 11:51am 
Thank you for taking the time to sit down and write this all out for us. You give us a virtual text buffet of food for thought here, and we very much appreciate the feedback. The team is reading it all over (I'm the speed-reader among us) and we'll be talking it all over internally. Once again, thank you <3
TrollofReason Nov 25, 2014 @ 12:28pm 
Any time. I pride myself on being moderately useful.
PiscisFerro Nov 25, 2014 @ 1:09pm 
Im with the OP, mining is painful, boring and too slow. I think is the only flaw atm.
nepperoni pizza Nov 25, 2014 @ 4:49pm 
I don't mind the mining, I think the starting laser pick is fine in its speed but the tier two mining laser I have isn't much better than the tier one overpowered laser. It is faster, yes. but not by much. it takes a couple less "clicks" on the block than the overpowered laser I would like to see an improvement on the upgraded picks.
Pachy Nov 25, 2014 @ 5:01pm 
If I might contribute one of my own. I dont know if this is a bug or a flaw. But I quit part way through the tutorial over due to frustration that the game made it impossible to complete its mission.

The game leads the player to a room with pits of dirt, mud etc. And instructs you to try out mining. Ok, check. So I get a few blocks from the various pits. The pits if you mine all way to the bottom its too deep to jump out.

Next mission is build a stair well to the ledge. Builds stairwell the the ledge of pit. Ok. Mission not completed. So I start doing this through the various pits, then traverse try the ledge that they make you fall off and take fall damage earlier in case they mean that ledge. Still not completed. Back to pit room, and trying to get around there. After many stair wells(using up almost all resources) I finally find the ledge which is off screen and in the dark from a below pit view. Finally get up to the ledge they wanted and go in a room. check.

Next mission is go to chest and get items out and use the schematics. While you do this the door behind you is locked. Next it directs you over to a device to craft from the schematics.
Once there I discovered that I did not have the materials needed to craft it. Furthermore with the door locked it is impossible for me to return to deconstruct stairwells to harvest materials.

How are you supposed to finish a mission if it locks you from the area to get the materials in the tutorial?
Is the Door supposed to close and lock or is that a bug?

As some one who had no previous experience i found the tutorial very frustrating. Shouldn't you be able to complete a tutorial your first time through? This tutorial seemed to expect you to know already what it wanted.
If this is bug I hope they find the cause, if it is a game flaw, please reconsider changing it to leave that door open in case the player doesnt have the required materials already. Thank you kindly.
CraneStyle  [developer] Nov 25, 2014 @ 5:21pm 
Originally posted by Piscis Ferro:
Im with the OP, mining is painful, boring and too slow. I think is the only flaw atm.

Just asking, could you compare it to terrarias? Becasue I hapeen to know for a fact our pick(unless they rebalanced it recently) the starter pick is 15% faster than th estarting mining in terraria. Also, if you push twords the utility track really early on you can get access to the overcharged laser pick REALLY fast like in under about an hour, and I love that PICK!
MoonlightEmber Nov 25, 2014 @ 5:23pm 
Originally posted by Pachy:
If I might contribute one of my own. I dont know if this is a bug or a flaw. But I quit part way through the tutorial over due to frustration that the game made it impossible to complete its mission.

The game leads the player to a room with pits of dirt, mud etc. And instructs you to try out mining. Ok, check. So I get a few blocks from the various pits. The pits if you mine all way to the bottom its too deep to jump out.

Next mission is build a stair well to the ledge. Builds stairwell the the ledge of pit. Ok. Mission not completed. So I start doing this through the various pits, then traverse try the ledge that they make you fall off and take fall damage earlier in case they mean that ledge. Still not completed. Back to pit room, and trying to get around there. After many stair wells(using up almost all resources) I finally find the ledge which is off screen and in the dark from a below pit view. Finally get up to the ledge they wanted and go in a room. check.

Next mission is go to chest and get items out and use the schematics. While you do this the door behind you is locked. Next it directs you over to a device to craft from the schematics.
Once there I discovered that I did not have the materials needed to craft it. Furthermore with the door locked it is impossible for me to return to deconstruct stairwells to harvest materials.

How are you supposed to finish a mission if it locks you from the area to get the materials in the tutorial?
Is the Door supposed to close and lock or is that a bug?

As some one who had no previous experience i found the tutorial very frustrating. Shouldn't you be able to complete a tutorial your first time through? This tutorial seemed to expect you to know already what it wanted.
If this is bug I hope they find the cause, if it is a game flaw, please reconsider changing it to leave that door open in case the player doesnt have the required materials already. Thank you kindly.

What it is, is a hiccup in the game's crafting window. You get the materials to craft the gun from the chest. When you first consume the schematic, it keeps trying to display the mining pick requirements instead of the rifle requirements. Clicking back and forth between the two is usually enough to fix it. It's one we're aware of, and are trying to find the cause as of yet.
Astasia Nov 25, 2014 @ 6:15pm 
I think adding a step in the tutorial that directs you to read something in the codex for the next objective would help a lot. The codex tells you how to build the starting base, but I didn't think to look there for a good 30 minutes of trying to figure out why the workshop wasn't working on my own. I thought the codex was just lore stuff, which I usually don't get into until later, but it has useful information in it.

From what I understand, it's not so much as a "stationary base" as you put it, but more like a series of hubs you can eventually teleport between. So building a bunch at various key locations is the goal.

I have to agree with the dirt/clay/mud/stone thing. It seems really weird building advanced machines with these primitive materials, I'm sure there's some sort of advanced refinement going on turning dirt into useable silicates, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like you just built a laser out of mud. Maybe an extra step, the ability to refine dirt/mud/clay/stone into "silicate" and then have all the recipes that call for several of each to instead only require that one refined resource. It's an extra step, but at the same time it wouldn't really be extra clicking as you wouldn't need to add 10 dirt, 10 mud, 10 clay and 10 stone to each recipe, it would just be 40 silicate or whatever. It's easier to grasp, better explains the process, and wouldn't require finding 4 different states of what is essentially all just dirt. It's not like the different base materials are hard to find and requiring all 4 adds anything, the surface is a big splotchy mess of all 4.
No Leaf Clover Nov 25, 2014 @ 6:21pm 
God. I don't even know how to power the workbench. Made a command node but I can't seem to make it power the bench. I'm with you,OP.
Last edited by No Leaf Clover; Nov 25, 2014 @ 6:21pm
MoonlightEmber Nov 25, 2014 @ 6:24pm 
Originally posted by Astasia:
I think adding a step in the tutorial that directs you to read something in the codex for the next objective would help a lot. The codex tells you how to build the starting base, but I didn't think to look there for a good 30 minutes of trying to figure out why the workshop wasn't working on my own. I thought the codex was just lore stuff, which I usually don't get into until later, but it has useful information in it.

From what I understand, it's not so much as a "stationary base" as you put it, but more like a series of hubs you can eventually teleport between. So building a bunch at various key locations is the goal.

I have to agree with the dirt/clay/mud/stone thing. It seems really weird building advanced machines with these primitive materials, I'm sure there's some sort of advanced refinement going on turning dirt into useable silicates, but it doesn't feel like it. It feels like you just built a laser out of mud. Maybe an extra step, the ability to refine dirt/mud/clay/stone into "silicate" and then have all the recipes that call for several of each to instead only require that one refined resource. It's an extra step, but at the same time it wouldn't really be extra clicking as you wouldn't need to add 10 dirt, 10 mud, 10 clay and 10 stone to each recipe, it would just be 40 silicate or whatever. It's easier to grasp, better explains the process, and wouldn't require finding 4 different states of what is essentially all just dirt. It's not like the different base materials are hard to find and requiring all 4 adds anything, the surface is a big splotchy mess of all 4.

The codex alert is going to get changed, it just slipped under the radar in all the UI changes we did. The original intent was to have a large pop-up that came along with a sound effect, making it VERY clear you've done something important when you get a codex entry. Having run short of time due to the holiday in 2 days here, we had to just toss in banner text that flashed on the side. It's turned out to be basically invisible to the player, and it's something we intend to fix for sure, along with more guidance in the early game. We'll get it sorted :)
tenabrae Nov 25, 2014 @ 6:40pm 
Knowing I hated edge of space's slow mining I pushed for the tier 2 pick early when I started playing the new build, it wasn't too awful to get it running though it still requires you to also learn base building.

I think there needs to eventually be more transparency in the tech tree... I could guess from previous play that the 'tools' tech would give me a better pick, but not that i'd also need 'base building' to make it, especially as you now need to power a workbench.
spl Nov 26, 2014 @ 11:28am 
You just saved me so much time, OP. I was in the same process starting out right now completely confused as to why my Workbench was not being recognized.

I actually kind of like the idea of having to build a protected base to get things functioning, but there are some definite pain points in understanding that and in getting it going to get started.
Pachy Nov 27, 2014 @ 1:33pm 
Lady Aijou,

Thank you kindly for taking the time to reply to my post and let me know what the problem was and that it is being addressed.
PiscisFerro Nov 27, 2014 @ 4:03pm 
Originally posted by LordShaggy:
Originally posted by Piscis Ferro:
Im with the OP, mining is painful, boring and too slow. I think is the only flaw atm.

Just asking, could you compare it to terrarias? Becasue I hapeen to know for a fact our pick(unless they rebalanced it recently) the starter pick is 15% faster than th estarting mining in terraria. Also, if you push twords the utility track really early on you can get access to the overcharged laser pick REALLY fast like in under about an hour, and I love that PICK!


In terraria after you find some metals you can upgrade your pike, so you cant compare it that much. In terraria if I remember correctly (I dont have it installed) I just needed 2 or even 3 hits to break the mud with a iron pike.

The most thing I hated in Terraria was the hammer. Really really boring and slow.

I dont know but in edge of space mining feels boring and slow it constantly reminds me the hammer in terraria dont know exactly why :S. For example I remember the update were you introduced the empty temples, I could mine that blocks really quickly and it wasnt frustrating or boring.

Another reason is walls. Walls feels even more boring and slow to mine. Maybe thats the problem, when you try to build a base for example of 8*8, you need to mine 64 floor's blocks + 64 walls blocks

Maybe adding some tiers? I mean, upgrading the current mining laser step by step so even if you start with a slow laser you can upgrade it and feel more the progression something like "ey! I just found some aluminium! lets put these blocks into my mining laser and voila!! Science!"

Dont know, for now I will download terraria and I will compare it to edge of space so I can provide a better feedback



CraneStyle  [developer] Nov 27, 2014 @ 4:07pm 
Hey guys, we will be looking on how we can make the whole thing a lot more clear and help give more feedback so you understand why something is not working as it should.

Also I know it does not make sense now but it will make sense later. How these systems interlock. Actually the base is aware of all of it's tiles it's connected too. So if something damages or attacks a structure tile the base actually has an alert system. This will feed into later when you get an alert when one of your bases is being raided.

Also later on you will have drone bays you can load with various drone types. Repair drones get orders from the base on where tiles have been damaged to send out automatic repairing. (This will come to make more sense once a few more features are in place).

So we are really looking for suggestions on how we can make the feature more user friendly at the start instead of avoiding it. It is a very key feature in the long run and getting you learning it out of the way early has better long term benefits, but we also have to figure out how to make it not a rough initial experience. So we are reading and taking input about this particular mechanic very carefully.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Nov 25, 2014 @ 11:39am
Posts: 32