§þyđà ÐæĦōŋĩƈ Nov 4, 2013 @ 5:05pm
What is up with combat!
Seems somethings broke, At what point I couldnt tell, I've pretty much ignored playing since the day it came out untill it was fixed, trying it out once every month or so ... So, I start up a new game today, get a few things done and head to the "Keep" i think it is ... with the Dwarf that tells you to go explore yaddah ... Anyway ... So, My mage gets three shotted almost instantly, My warriors with their "So called" high skill, cannot hit a thing 4-5 times in a row, my huntress, thats apparently good with a bow didnt hit a single enemy at all in the entire combat, and my mage spells fizzled constantly ... Not to mention with a skill of 8 in "Light" i failed (out of combat) 4 times in a row to even cast it, wasting all my spellpoints ... Urgh ...

Now another thing, Every player / monster turn in combat there's a 20 second "Sit around and do nothing" pause ... I attack (And obviously miss) ... wait 20 seconds ... the enemy attacks wait 20 seconds .. Gawds, is this happening to anyone else, cause its put me right off bothering with the game
Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
< >
urartu Nov 4, 2013 @ 8:24pm 
Seems like you visited Old Bailey and fought with Robbers who are pretty weak.

If it was your starting party, then you should consider that the starting party is not quite skilled, have normal equipment and composition matters a lot.

For talents:

-5 to 0: You really do not know about that talent but you can give it a shot.
0 to 5: You know the basics and at the beginning of the profession.
5 to 10: You are trained in the talent and you can pull it off easier then a rookie.
15: You are a professional in the business.
17-18+: You are the master of the job.

Same mentality applies to spells, as well.

In a dice roll, there is always a room for failure, though. Also there is a double arrow button ( should be used in emergencies/hang ups) which specifically allows you to force turn change if "sit and do nothings" happen. For me those battles were quite swift. My Mage could make short work of those robbers with Fulminictus. Druid could scare a few of them with Evil Eye or debuff them with Lightning Find You. And warriors concentrated on one target would make waste their parry easily and open for damage. (Everyone has at least one parry chance in each turn).
Last edited by urartu; Nov 4, 2013 @ 8:36pm
Karol13 Nov 5, 2013 @ 12:24am 
I even used spells at skill level o 0, those fizzled 50% of times. Spells on skill 4 or higher fizzled nearly never. Even Fulmunictus on level two works quite often (while skill level 2 is quite low)
This time I have only one warrior: dwarf, skill with axes: 6, if he fights alone, he can't hit (but the same was in original, as parry is triggered, is probably in Dark Eye rules) but if my witch or druid hit an enemy, my dwarf delivers nice damage nearly each round. (with my fav Orc Nose between 2 up to 10... not sure what Armor class rogues have, but it's still nice damage)
Truth is, I don't focus on melee combat, I keep one enemy for my dwarf only for fun. (I keep my dwarf only for cases there will be magic resistant enemy sometime later in the game). I quite could win just with my 5 spell casters, as Horrophobious, Be my friend, Evil Eye.. and some other spells of my favorite list work, and work perfectly.

It is still not so easy as I may make it look, as many spells work only at short distance and of course none of my characters have kung-fu skill at 19, so no arrow dodging right now.
Chris Firefox  [developer] Nov 5, 2013 @ 12:40am 
Different than other RPG systems, where the main attributes of the character are mostly just used for limiting skills, the dark eye uses the main attributes constantly, and skills just make the checks easier or the results better (provided you roll well on the mandatory attribute checks). Every skill and every spell need three checks to three attributes (which can be seen in the skill and spell descriptions at "Attributes" in the according help when you leave the mouse on a skill or spell.

So if you increase a specific attribute by 1, every single check for every skill using this attribute gets a *lot* easier, and having bad or even mediocre attribute values (below 11) really goes into your success chances on skills and spells.

Also very important, if you want to hit anything in combat, DON'T war armor! Armor impairs your ability to move, thus impairing your ability to strike successfully. Check the attack and parry values in the "combat" tab of your character, and use a weapon that matches the best skills of the according char. Values below 10 make a hit chance of less than 50% (where your opponent also has a parry chance, so above 50% on your side would be wise).
mcburress Nov 5, 2013 @ 12:55am 
people overlook the talents warcraft, body control and willpower. They have a big effect on how you fight in combat
Chris Firefox  [developer] Nov 5, 2013 @ 5:09am 
Body control got removed because battles (and damages from them) where too easy in the first place, and warcraft currently hasn't got any effect. Yet.
§þyđà ÐæĦōŋĩƈ Nov 5, 2013 @ 5:35am 
Hey hey, Well from what I've gathered while creating characters for my group, It's pretty much impossible to get a skill or a spell over 7, There are a few class's like the Rogue, where I Can get my cheat and pick pockets up to 9 ... and a warrior with an attack of 10, but raising skills "Fails" quite a lot of the time too, So if I can only raise my weapon attacks by a maximum of 1 point per level, and it starts on say 6 ... that means I'll have (If lucky) 4 levels to gain before I can even hit anything with a skill of 10, but if i cannot actually hit anything with a skill of 6, how do i level it up in the first place?

I've tried wearing no armour, partial armour and full armour, Seems to make little difference to me in game, the constant miss happens whether or not I'm wearing it. My huntress wears none, Her ranged skill is 13 .... That's the one that missed every single attack during a full battle

My mage had lightning at 7, and fizzled 3 or 4 times in a row before she died, and my silvan elf was the one with light in the darkness of 7, that failed out of combat 4 times in a row wasting 75% of my magic points.

I dont honestly know, I've tried creating parties with all 13's in attributes. If that talent table above is accurate, I'm almost 10 points below what it takes to even gain a 50/50 chance of succeeding, And thats with my best skilled ... what could i possibly be doing wrong lol.

Oh, as for the >> button in combat, that's grayed out while this 20 second pause is going on so thats no use ... maybe I should uninstall and reinstall, see if that maybe fixes it ...

Thanks all
Karol13 Nov 5, 2013 @ 6:14am 
that, what I read, sounds very grim. So just to get sure, if I was not only lucky, I loaded my party and fought another 3 rogues.
Round 1: none of my spells could hit on long distance, so I just moved each caster so next turn they can have free line of sight. My elf shot at one rogue (-2 VI), one rogue shot my mage: missed
Round 2: My elf shot the same rogue, for another 2 VI. My witch was hit in HtH for 9 VI (ouch!). My druid casts Evil Eye (skill 4) : success. My first mage casts Horrophobious (skill 4): success. My 2nd mage casts also horrophobous.. just to try it out (skill -2) ... also success.
Round 3: all three rogues run towards exit: I won.
Chris Firefox  [developer] Nov 5, 2013 @ 6:17am 
No, it doesn't. Despite its grayed out, the button still works.

And one thing you need to understand: These are *chances* of hitting, which will eventually, with a significantly large sample, come to pass. You can't make 10 Rolls of a die, analyse the distribution and then say "the die is flawed" because it rolled a 6 half of the time.

Weapon skills work different than "normal" skill rolls. You get a base attack value and a base parry value, which is about 7, ideally 8 for melee classes (if you maxed every attribute to 13, that is most probably the case). Then you get to distribute your weapon skill on top of that, so if you have e.g. Swords 6, distributed to 4 Attack and 2 Parry, and you have a base attack value of 8, you get a 12 in attack, which translates to a 60% hit chance. As I said, check the Combat tab in the character menu when equipping your party, it helps to know that.

We are currently working on a better user interface, so maybe we can make some helpers that warn about bad decisions when it comes to weapons.

You could, if you want to, post your savegame at our official forums (http://forum.schicksalsklinge.com/) and let some of the guys there have a look at your party - maybe we can give you some hints you overlooked.
§þyđà ÐæĦōŋĩƈ Nov 5, 2013 @ 6:28am 
You just have the luck Karol! ... I've uninstalled and doing a fresh install now, Maybe something went wrong during all the patching, I've not actually done a new installation since the day it came out ... So I'll finish this and test it out to see how it works .

Chris: Know you're all doing a great job getting it all patched and fixed up, but yeah tooltips sometimes make little sense, and there's no tooltips for attributes too ... I do stick to the weapons the character is best trained in, unfortunately other than my warrior and huntress everyone else's skill was 2-4 at best, which makes for a pretty useless bunch, Although my rogue seemed to hit more often with a lower skill, which also adds to the confusion
Karol13 Nov 5, 2013 @ 6:50am 
I spend extra time on party creation and also try to ramp up stats that impact spells I want to use (Horriphobus needs: CO/IN/CH , so I make sure my mage does not have only Cleverness of 13, but I try to max also Courage, Intuition and Charisma)
It takes sometimes more than an hour to re-roll until I am happy to go with that char... (and even so it may happen, that during the game I realize I forgot about pos, or neg attribute in the process.)
But I actually like this part of RPG games (I remember spending like 5 hours in Baldur's Game on re-rolling till I had 3x18 and none below 10)
So if you want, give me info about what party you would like and can create it for you with the aspect on maxing it up. (but I can't promise to make melee chars hit often, even my dwarf with ATT 12, PA 11 needs always support)
joebeaupre27 Nov 5, 2013 @ 7:05am 
i really dont like the combat system i get kill all the time even VS robber
Brashen Jan 1, 2014 @ 10:39am 
Originally posted by Chris Firefox:
Different than other RPG systems, where the main attributes of the character are mostly just used for limiting skills, the dark eye uses the main attributes constantly, and skills just make the checks easier or the results better (provided you roll well on the mandatory attribute checks). Every skill and every spell need three checks to three attributes (which can be seen in the skill and spell descriptions at "Attributes" in the according help when you leave the mouse on a skill or spell.

So if you increase a specific attribute by 1, every single check for every skill using this attribute gets a *lot* easier, and having bad or even mediocre attribute values (below 11) really goes into your success chances on skills and spells.

Also very important, if you want to hit anything in combat, DON'T war armor! Armor impairs your ability to move, thus impairing your ability to strike successfully. Check the attack and parry values in the "combat" tab of your character, and use a weapon that matches the best skills of the according char. Values below 10 make a hit chance of less than 50% (where your opponent also has a parry chance, so above 50% on your side would be wise).

Why would you create a game where your fighters can't land a hit if they're wearing armor? If so, why bother putting armor in the game?

I understand the strategy of using a fighter as simply a punching bag and doing all of your damage with magic users, but why force this path? Seems very narrow. Aren't RPG's supposed to be more open? With different paths available based on preference? If not, why bother with all the different classes?

Combat is way too hard. Hitting anything has become, quite simply, a joke.

I really want to like this game, but you're making it very hard to do so.
urartu Jan 1, 2014 @ 11:24am 
Originally posted by Brashen:
Why would you create a game where your fighters can't land a hit if they're wearing armor? If so, why bother putting armor in the game?

I understand the strategy of using a fighter as simply a punching bag and doing all of your damage with magic users, but why force this path? Seems very narrow. Aren't RPG's supposed to be more open? With different paths available based on preference? If not, why bother with all the different classes?

Combat is way too hard. Hitting anything has become, quite simply, a joke.

I really want to like this game, but you're making it very hard to do so.

Actually depends on your warrior. Lvl 1 Warrior Archetype is no different then a brash young lad who just learned how to hold a sword and stick the pointy end to others. His/her strength will be average and capability to be effective is limited to how good you can defuse opponent parry and defense.

By armor he refers to heavy armor types which are plain taxing for your carry weight while you might need other types of equipments for the character as well. And if you are still an inexperienced lad, wearing a heavy armor would only slow you down and make you clumsy.

Also three attack types yet to be implemented:

-Aggressive: Less Parry Chance, More Hit Chance
-Normal: Normal Parry Chance, Normal Hit Chance
-Careful: More Parry Chance, Less Hit Chance

So basically you could go for a more aggressive assault which would have a better chance of landing successful blows while keeping your damaged or less sturdy characters as punching bags with careful blows without dropping them from combat entirely...etc

Also in a case debuffing your enemy parry chance (with a mage for example or wasting their parry by another character) while going aggressive with a warrior will have a greater success for example.
Chris Firefox  [developer] Jan 1, 2014 @ 11:27am 
It is not a matter of "making it impossible to hit anything with armor", but a matter of "being hindered by armor when trying to move like an artist". The dark eye has always been more about realism than pure heroism. So if you want to wear plate armor and still fight with the sword like Aragorn in return of the King - well, it just won't work by the rules. But, if you take a closer look at most of the swordfighting action in those movies, they hardly ever wear full plate armor with helmet and all, they rarely wear ANY armor.

Why? Because armor reduces your movement speeds, it is heavy and just won't let you make those fancy sword moves you want as fast as you want. This is exactly what the game and its rules reflect. If you want to attack by sword, go for light armor, and if you want to attack by rapier, go for almost no armor. Again, looking at those movies, the heroes hardly ever get hit *at all*. Why? Because they PARRY. Armor is the equivalent of "stand there like a tree and hope it won't hurt". Parry is the equivalent of movie-like "haha, you TRIED to hit, but I wasn't there, just my weapon".

It is just *not* D+D-Style, not to be able to fight like that AND have plate armor, helmet and whatnot. But I can't and won't change that ruleset, because for many people playing it, exactly the DIFFERENCES to the D+D-"I crush 60 orcs with a single stroke of my magic sword +3" style of RPG is what makes the whole appeal of TDE in General and BoD in special.

Granted, we need the aggressive stance (to increase your chances of hitting the enemy even on lower levels above 50%) and some special attacks (increasing damage, but lowering hit chance by choice) to make the battles more interesting and less lengthy.

But if you read other users postings, many of them state that combat is not challenging enough and just too easy and walk-in-the-park. I think instead of demanding a change in game mechanics, maybe you could try to embrace the ruleset, or give it a try to learn it, or check some of the guides (even for the original game, especially in combat we didn't make too many changes to invalidate them), I think you can have a lot of fun with our game. We are "old school" and proud of it, and this applies especially to the difficulty level. Trust me, overcoming these hardships and beating a game you believe is "too hard" in the first place is *a lot* more rewarding than any railroaded experience you can ever have, no matter how much more beautiful it may look.
§þyđà ÐæĦōŋĩƈ Jan 1, 2014 @ 1:37pm 
I did actually give up playing this game ... I do understand that wearing 60 lbs of plate armour restricts your combat prowess, but Missing while wearing nothing buy my underpants then being hit and dying or missing while wearing armour then still being hit and dying, lost its appeal. Failing to cast spells almost constantly whether in or out of combat, and almost always failing to level up a skill when my characters had levelled just took the fun out of it all ... I'll try it again soon enough im sure, but before that happens, we really need some information on skills "And what they actually Do" and some kind of visual tooltip or whatever that shows an actual percentage to hit, dodge in combat, and maybe one that also shows you what percentage you have of raising a skill. And maybe give the strength attribute a use, like carrying capacity, as it seems to do absolutely nothing other than help with skills. But as ive said, Not played in a while so that might have changed.
Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50