Expeditions: Conquistador

Expeditions: Conquistador

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AlyaBT Jun 17, 2017 @ 11:50am
i don't want to Conquer the New world :( can i play the game without killing/enslaving natives?
okay, i'm kinda embarrassed to ask this

i played and liked Expeditions: viking so i'm thinking about this game but there's a problem, i have a deep disdain towards the colonization of the Americas and the terror suffered by the natives and being a Spaniard is even worse, they were particularly nasty at that era, i think. so i don't want fight the natives, kill them, or take their land, i know it just a game but i won't be able to get into it, zero immersion for me

so the qustion is, does the game give me a path were i don't have to kill natives or concur their lands? or even better, join the natives and fight the invaders? (am i being too wishful?)

yeah i know the whole point beyond role playing is .. role playing but this is how i feel

i'm not trolling and i'm sorry if it sounded like it, and i'm not here to talk about history only the reasons i have to make this game hard for me

thanks and cheers to the Spanish among you
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
TentacleMayor Jun 17, 2017 @ 12:02pm 
Yeah, without spoiling too much, you can be a goody-two-shoes explorer and even leave the New World a better place when you leave. You end up fighting natives no matter what but there's a path that is much more ethical so you don't have to behave like a pillaging invader.
Blind Greedy Fool Jun 17, 2017 @ 12:04pm 
you can be a good guy but still have to kill some natives
Qwertion Jun 18, 2017 @ 2:14am 
So there are two kinds of natives. Those who attack all the white people and those who are peaceful. You'll have to fight the first kind. But you can still do it humanely, there are even options like tend to their wounded after the fight. I had 1 racist guy in my party though and he was really upset by how I treat natives, though.
AlyaBT Jun 18, 2017 @ 11:36am 
thanks everyone, i'm getting this defiantly
tentaclemage Jun 26, 2017 @ 6:56pm 
If you want to play as Mr Nice guy, don't forget to put lots of points into diplomacy.
Hannibal Barca Aug 4, 2017 @ 3:04pm 
I felt it was wrong killing digital representives of my ancestors too
Zorelnam Sep 10, 2017 @ 6:27am 
If you really give it some thought, humans are born to kill other beings, think about it , what have we been doing since the moment we came to existance? waging endless war. What does our entire nutrition base on? Killing animals and plants. Only now a days is war seen as something terrible due to a world peace enforced by nuclear weapons.
Just let go, this is what you were born to do, you gotta conquer or you will be conquered
 Sc4r3crow  Sep 29, 2017 @ 5:12pm 
Originally posted by AlyaBT:
and being a Spaniard is even worse, they were particularly nasty at that era, i think.

The spanish werent worse than any other european nation at the time, the difference is they were the most powerful, so everyone feared them. Nowdays Hollywood picture spanish empire as being a reign of terror when in fact it wasnt different than any other. See what the british and french did to Africa, what Portugal did to Brazil or even what the british did to indians at North America.

Like Zorelnam said, it's what humans do to each other since the beginning of times...
Earl Komrad Sep 30, 2017 @ 6:42pm 
Originally posted by  Sc4r3crow :
Originally posted by AlyaBT:
and being a Spaniard is even worse, they were particularly nasty at that era, i think.

The spanish werent worse than any other european nation at the time, the difference is they were the most powerful, so everyone feared them. Nowdays Hollywood picture spanish empire as being a reign of terror when in fact it wasnt different than any other. See what the british and french did to Africa, what Portugal did to Brazil or even what the british did to indians at North America.

Like Zorelnam said, it's what humans do to each other since the beginning of times...

Historian here. There's a lot of misconceptions about the conquest of the New World. Many of them were the child of propaganda made in Europe in order to justify wars. I.E: The Black Legend.

As a matter of fact, what devastated the Native population were the dieses brought by the Europeans. And, in many cases the European conquest in the New World could be seen as something very similar to how Julius Ceaser annexed the Galic population into the Empire ( I can elaborate more if needed.)

Let me brieflly compare the English, Portuguese & Spanish "colonization" of the New World.

Today we see the Spanishes as the worse kind of conquistadors because they fought many wars against the Dutches, the Frenches and the Englishes. In each of these wars they were painted as tyrants who pillaged, rapped and burned all the natives. That is only held true today because they lost many wars in the XVI & XVII centuries. In fact, if they had done so today the countries that speak spanish Westerns Hemisphere wouldn't have such an ethinic diversity and strong ties with the native cultures (The name "Mexico" is the how the Aztecs called themselfs "The Mexicas"). It's impossible to know for sure how many natives died.

The native population in Brazil was even luckier. As a matter of fact, many tribes merged with the European settlements that were founded along the coast after there rival tribes were defeated with the help of the Europeans. Also, many cities were only able to survive because the natives provided the Europeans with food, shelter, manpower and guides. What people fail to realise is that many tribes went extinct because they were assimilated by the portugueses (All of this also applies to a lesser degree with the natives that lived in the territories colonized by the Spanish crown).

Lastly The North American colonization was a freaking massacre and systematically slaugther of the native population. That's the reason why Brazil and many other non-USA countries have many native tribes left, but the majority of the native american tribes are extinct and the country is so cosmopolitan. But, hey, the propaganda sells that the Spanishes were mass murders, brazil was built on the back of slaves and prisoners... In the end, we (historians) keep on using the same old historiography that we learned, wich is realy biased in favour of the North Americans and against the "Latins".

So, ye. It isn't as simple as it may first appears.
P.S: I published a paper about this, so I had to read some different authors :)
Pistolero Oct 26, 2017 @ 12:55am 
Head up your a$$ revisionism by an idiot who cannot even spell. Read a few more books, get a few degrees from real universities, then get back to me. Your comprehension is juvenile.
Earl Komrad Oct 26, 2017 @ 5:19am 
Originally posted by Pistolero:
Head up your a$$ revisionism by an idiot who cannot even spell. Read a few more books, get a few degrees from real universities, then get back to me. Your comprehension is juvenile.
:)
[__h.stickeye_] Oct 31, 2017 @ 2:02am 
Originally posted by Pistolero:
Head up your a$$ revisionism by an idiot who cannot even spell. Read a few more books, get a few degrees from real universities, then get back to me. Your comprehension is juvenile.

Even tho I think it is stupid to say 'Im a historian' and then prcoeed to condescend on a steam thread of all places, your comment is completely uncalled for and does not add one iota to the thread.
FraGG Nov 26, 2017 @ 3:11pm 
Originally posted by Pistolero:
Head up your a$$ revisionism by an idiot who cannot even spell. Read a few more books, get a few degrees from real universities, then get back to me. Your comprehension is juvenile.

So pistolero, get ready for a truck load of truth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos

My country of origin (Spain) was the first country in the world to secure the rights of the natives.. more rights than you could wish for in that particular medieval time anyway.

they might have not been enforced as they should at all times but they were there in 1512

Espeically laws like number #24
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1: The Indians are to be moved to encomiendas. For every fifty Indians, four lodges shall be built (thirty by fifteen feet). This land cannot be taken from them since they were taken from their original land. The Indians will do the planting of all of the food. During the proper seasons, the encomenderos (men looking over the Indians) will have the Indians plant corn and raise the hens.

2: The Indians will leave their land voluntarily to come to the encomiendas so that they shall not suffer from being removed by force.

3: The citizen to whom the Indians are given must erect a structure to be used as a church. In the church must be a picture of Our Lady and a bell with which to call the Indians to prayer time. The person who has them in the encomienda must go with them to church every night and make sure they cross themselves and sing several hymns. If an Indian does not come to the church, he is not allowed to rest the next day.

4: To make sure the Indians are learning Christianity properly, they shall be tested every two weeks and taught what they do not know by the Encomendero. He shall teach them the Ten Commandments, the Seven Deadly Sins, and the Articles of Faith. Any encomendero that does not do this properly will be fined six gold pesos.

5: A church will be built equidistant from all estates. On Sundays, Mass shall be observed and a feast will be eaten. If the encomendero does not bring his Indians, he will be charged ten gold pesos.

6: If The church is too far away, another will be built.

7: The priests who collect tithes from the estates must have priests continually in the churches of the estates.

8: There shall be churches built at the mines so that the Indians working the mines may hear mass on Sundays.

9: Whoever has fifty Indians must choose one boy who the encomendero thinks is able, to be taught to read and write, and also the importance of Catholicism. This boy will then teach the other Indians because the Indians would more readily accept what the boy says than what the Spaniards says. If the encomendero has one hundred Indians, two boys shall be chosen. The faith must be ingrained into their heads so the souls of the Indians are saved.

10: If an Indian falls sick near where there is a priest, the priest must go to him and recite the Credo and other profitable things of the Catholic faith. The Indian shall make confession without being charged a fee. If the Indian is to die, he shall be buried with a cross near the church. If he is not buried, the encomendero owes a fine of four gold pesos.

11: The Indians must not be used as carriers for transporting things to the Indians at the mines.

12: All Spanish inhabitants who have Indians in an encomienda must have the infants baptized within a week of their birth.

13: After the Indians have been brought to the estates, gold shall be searched for as follows: Indians in an encomienda must search for gold for five months a year and at the end of the five months are allowed to rest for forty days. During the forty days, the Indians are not to be employed, unless they are a slave and accept to plant the crops. During the forty days, the Indians will be further instructed in faith since they have more time to learn.

14: The Indians must be allowed to perform their sacred dances.

15: All citizens who have Indians are required to feed them breads, yams, peppers, and on Sundays feed them dishes of cooked meat. For every offense, a fine of two gold pesos shall be paid.

16: According to Catholicism, the Indians are not allowed to have more than one wife at a time and they are not allowed to abandon their wives.

17: Sons of the chiefs of the Islands who are under the age of thirteen are to be given to the Friars so they can be taught how to read, write, and other things about Catholicism. When the sons reach the age of nineteen, they are to return to the encomienda and teach the others.

18: Pregnant women are not to be sent to the mines or made to plant the crops. They shall be kept on the estate and made to do household duties such as cooking and weeding. After the child is born, she can nurse it until it is three years old. After this time, she can return to the mines and other duties.

19: The Indians should not sleep on the ground. Each encomendero should provide his Indians with hammocks.

20: The Indians are to be given one gold peso every year to pay for clothing.

21: Indians may not change their masters. One encomendero cannot employ or house an Indian belonging to another encomendero.

22: The Indian chiefs are allowed two Indians to perform personal duties for every forty of their subjects. Also, visitors to the estates must treat the Indians well and teach them what they know of Catholicism.

23: Official inspectors must keep records of the activities and also the treatment of the Indians in the encomiendas. They must keep track of the population and how much gold is being mined.

24: The Indians are not to be physically or verbally abused for any reason.

25: The Indians are not to be used in private trade or for any other economic interest.

26: Encomenderos that have their Indians working in distant mines shall combine efforts with other estates to help provide food for the Indians.

27 Indians from other lands must also be taught the things of the Catholic faith. They are to be treated kindly, unless they are slaves.

28: If an encomendero dies, his successor takes control of the Indians.

29: Two inspectors should be appointed to each Estate.

30. The inspectors are to be chosen by the Admiral, judges, and officers. These people should be compensated by being given Indians in encomienda.

31. Villages should be inspected two times a year, once in the beginning of the year, and once in the summer.

32: If there is a runaway Indian, inspectors cannot apprehend them. They must be given to a man of good conscience who will find the Indians' encomendero.

33: All inspectors should hold a copy of the Laws of Burgos, signed by the Governor.

34: Inspectors must be provided residencias.

35: One person may not have more than one hundred and fifty Indians and no less than forty Indians in encomienda at one time.

Amendments were added to the Laws or Burgos on 28 July 1513.

1: Indian women married to Indian men are not to be forced to serve with their husbands at the mines or anywhere else unless it is by their own free will or unless their husbands wish to take them.

2: Indian children do not have to do the work of adults until the reach the age of fourteen. They are then made to do the tasks of children, like weeding or working in their parents estates.

3: Unmarried Indian women who are under the authority of their parents have to work with them on their lands. Those not under the authority of their parents must be kept apart so they don’t become vagabonds.

4: After two years of service, the Indians are free to go. By this time they will be civilized and proper Christians, able to govern themselves.
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You might understand that contrary to any of the english colonies, we mixed with them. In the usa natives live in reservations but the vast majority of the usa for example is still white.

In spanish countries you have alot of mestizos, they have the 'hispanic' culture coming from 'hispania' ( spain how it was called by the romans)

And to this day there is an ibero-american summit.

Thats the 'black legend' and alot of south americans think the same way ( bad about spain) But for its time it was very progressive and as mentioned it shows in the particular population of the countries. ( mostly spanish blood mixed with them.)

These mixed people or natives whom we married and made christians ( which was number 1 task really) occupied positions of power later on like administration, military and others. These were in fact not people that we viewed as lesser than us

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_wars_of_independence

The wars of the south american independence from spain were not even started by natives. They were fought by creoles, people of non native origin. You could compare it to the american war of indepence against the english crown. The reason here was the occupation of spain by napoleon.

+ the laws of burgos where built upon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Laws with the new laws.

Origins[edit]
The New Laws were the results of a reform movement spurred by what was seen as the less effective, decades-old Leyes de Burgos (Laws of Burgos), issued by King Ferdinand II of Aragon on December 27, 1512. These laws were the first set of rules created to regulate relations between the Spaniards and the recently conquered indigenous people,

-------->REGARDED AS THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF HUMANITARIAN LAWS IN THE NEW WORLD<-------.

These had been effective to a limited extent due to the opposition of some colonists. Some regarded the laws as legalizing the system of forced Indian labor. During the reign of King Charles I, the reformers gained strength, with a number of Spanish missionaries making the case for stricter rules, including Bartolomé de las Casas and Francisco de Vitoria. The goal was to protect the Indians against forced labor and expropriation and to preserve their lifestyle. The very legitimacy of the conquest and colonization was objected during discussions. Eventually, the reformists were able to influence the King to pass a new set of reforms that came to be known as the New Laws.

So Pistolero... I beg to differ and maybe you should read some more books of historic facts.

There surely was evil, but spain in this particular time frame was the light with the first humanitarian laws in the new world. Forbidding to beat and insult natives by law and also by law granting their freedom after 2 years as you can read.

But we know what propaganda did, especially since americans continued later on what british and french begann.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

In 1901, novelist Mark Twain wrote about the aftermath of the war for the Philippines:[72]

We have robbed a trusting friend of his land and his liberty; we have invited clean young men to shoulder a discredited musket and do bandit's work under a flag which bandits have been accustomed to fear, not to follow; we have debauched America's honor and blackened her face before the world.

In his War and Empire,[19] Prof. Paul Atwood of the University of Massachusetts (Boston) writes:

The Spanish-American War was fomented on outright lies and trumped up accusations against the intended enemy. ... War fever in the general population never reached a critical temperature until the accidental sinking of the USS Maine was deliberately, and falsely, attributed to Spanish villainy. ... In a cryptic message ... Senator lodge wrote that ‘There may be an explosion any day in Cuba which would settle a great many things. We have got a battleship in the harbor of Havana, and our fleet, which overmatches anything the Spanish have, is masked at the Dry Tortugas.’

We viewed cuba as spain, not as colony. And there is strong evidence that the exploding ship which caused the war was either an accident or a hoax

Propaganda of the spanish american war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

No grudge at all, but you used a position of weakness of spain to fatten your pockets, and you even lied. The same like britain did for hundreds of years.

Quote: “You furnish the pictures and I’ll furnish the war.” – William Randolph Hearst, January 25, 1898

This opinion of spain and its history forged by the so called 'black legend' and propaganda continues to exist in the minds of people untill this day. Like we are soulless barbarians :P

These are facts, no matter what you might think.
Last edited by FraGG; Nov 26, 2017 @ 4:45pm
Earl Komrad Nov 26, 2017 @ 4:07pm 
Hey Fragg, thank you for the insightful information and the links. I do appreciate your effort.
FraGG Nov 26, 2017 @ 4:12pm 
Originally posted by Earl Komrad:
Hey Fragg, thank you for the insightful information and the links. I do appreciate your effort.

Your welcome, earl comrad. I added something again to the original post but now iam finished :)

Whops, with my last edit i did unintenionally delete some things, but i think i have them now restored.
Last edited by FraGG; Nov 26, 2017 @ 4:23pm
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