yarbrough320 Aug 28, 2013 @ 11:50pm
Boycott Golem Arcana
I'm more than a little disappointed with this, at the same time there are silver linings. The music, the art and some of the original players of the Ip. I am skeptical about how much they held this game back in terms of revenue and design in favor of Golem Arcana. To just move on so fast is alarming like diarreah. Just want to say I've waited 20 years to play a good SR video game and I'm a going to keep on waiting. I don't think the UGC will ever surpass the Dead Mans Switch.
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RClovesShadowrun Aug 29, 2013 @ 1:08am 
Chummer, the whole Golem Arcana team is 4 people. There are 27 team members at HBS continuing to work on Shadowrun Returns. If the Golem Arcana Kickstarter is successful, HBS will be hiring new blood, not poaching from the old pool. They want to grow their studio, not stunt existing projects.

That being said, as much as I supported HBS on Shadowrun Returns, I wasn't all that thrilled when I first heard about Golem Arcana. Beyond having similar doubts to your own, I also wasn't convinced the game would be fun to play as a tabletop miniature game.

I got to demo Golem Arcana at GenCon, and my doubts were unfounded. It's a lot of fun to play, and any game that's a *fun* experience is worth supporting.

I also think Shadowrun Returns is fun, and is going to improve significantly over time. And some of the UGC is already more fun to run through than parts of Dead Mans Switch, though some modders are also working on improving and expanding Dead Mans Switch, as well as HBS improving the game engine, and the game editor.

Will Shadowrun Returns ever turn in to the $100million blockbuster Shadowrun title we'd all still love to see? No. It was low-budget (even with the successful kickstarter, that was a really low budget for a video game), and yet it will continue to improve over time. Shadowrun Returns is fun, but as an indie game on a tight budget and tighter time-frame, it launched with bugs and issues. The bugs are being squashed, and most of the issues will be addressed. There have already been 4 updates to SRR, showing the devs continue to work hard to give us a great game.

Don't allow your extremely high expectations kill interest in new games, or potential new Shadowrun game development through excessive expulsion of bile. Showing continued community support for Shadowrun Returns will increase the chances of us getting bigger budget Shadowrun video game investment/productions in the future. Spitting on the devs for trying, and starting up SR game development again, will only show investors and the IP owners that it's not worth the hassle to support the Shadowrun IP.

Your skepticism is misplaced. Don't let up the pressure, but focus it constructively instead. And, don't cheat yourself, or other people, out of a fun new game to play. ^_^
Last edited by RClovesShadowrun; Aug 29, 2013 @ 1:15am
Gwion Aug 29, 2013 @ 3:50am 
Shadowrun Returns is ok but is still a letdown. Maybe too much compromises were made during devlopment, the gameplay is ok but quickly feel tepid.
suppa Aug 29, 2013 @ 8:00am 
I'm not touching Golem Arcana because it's a ridiculous idea that's been tried before and doesn't work.

I think Jordan is a tabletop guy so he's trying to see if it takes off. Best of luck to him. Shame about SRR.
GrYeYeS Sep 3, 2013 @ 12:59am 
Yup, HBS has burned a lot of bridges releasing a blatantly unfinished product and then essentially ignoring it post-release. The core structure of the game precludes any serious or deep modding and the single player content is anemic at best, blatantly cash grab at worst.
RClovesShadowrun Sep 3, 2013 @ 1:31am 
Originally posted by suppa:
I'm not touching Golem Arcana because it's a ridiculous idea that's been tried before and doesn't work.

I think Jordan is a tabletop guy so he's trying to see if it takes off. Best of luck to him. Shame about SRR.

Many people recently played the demo at Gencon and PAX. Every response to it I've seen has been overwhelmingly positive. I played it too, and it was fun. I've seen the previous attempts by other companies to meld miniatures and digital, and I've seen why they failed (and I didn't particularly like them, they weren't fun to play.) Golem Arcana is fun to play, and if not burdened by opinions of previous attempts by other game designers who failed, has a pretty good chance of succeeding as a niche game product, and deservedly so. I suggest seeing if you can get somewhere you can demo it before giving it a thumbs down, because I was originally thinking the same thing you are now.

RClovesShadowrun Sep 3, 2013 @ 1:39am 
Originally posted by GrYeYeS:
Yup, HBS has burned a lot of bridges releasing a blatantly unfinished product and then essentially ignoring it post-release. The core structure of the game precludes any serious or deep modding and the single player content is anemic at best, blatantly cash grab at worst.

Four patches addressing many issues in the first few weeks the game is out, is not ignoring it.

Everything else I posted here <deleted> because I've stated it in my initial post in this thread. Nothing I can do if chummers post without bothering to read first.
Last edited by RClovesShadowrun; Sep 3, 2013 @ 1:55am
yarbrough320 Sep 25, 2013 @ 9:35pm 
Originally posted by RClovesShadowrun:
Don't allow your extremely high expectations kill interest in new games, or potential new Shadowrun game development through excessive expulsion of bile. Showing continued community support for Shadowrun Returns will increase the chances of us getting bigger budget Shadowrun video game investment/productions in the future. Spitting on the devs for trying, and starting up SR game development again, will only show investors and the IP owners that it's not worth the hassle to support the Shadowrun IP.
Well said! I will keep this brief. I expected something to surpass the 16 bit games at least in the way of mechanics and gameplay. What we have here shares more likeness to the Kings Quest series. I look forward to your rebuttal! I will always support Shadowrun. I have the original hardback 89 tabletop book many novels and the sega game. I had more of the elder novels but lost them in a house fire along with a SNES shadowrun mint instruction booklet. I saw one recently opening at 40.00 dollars on ebay. Since I'm no tabletop player ( no one to play with or ever taught me) I am more a collector, reader and a neverdie awaiter of SR Video Games. I was 16 when my brother rented SNES SR and have been a hardcore loyal fan since. I even vouch for the FPS lol but I daresay I do agree with the other posters on this thread too. I have to stay optimistic with SR but wonder If Jordan Had this planned all along and wonder if he still loves the SR IP. I see Golem Arcana has not met its goal albeit early in the campaign. Boo on Golem Arcana
Last edited by yarbrough320; Sep 25, 2013 @ 9:40pm
StuDaBaker =8= Sep 26, 2013 @ 7:41am 
I have enjoyed playing Shadowrun Returns. I'm glad that there's been at least another attempt to produce a game, on an IP that so many obviously love and many investors had written off after the half-♥♥♥♥♥ attempt to turn it into an FPS. I played both the Sega Genesis and the SNES version is still one of my favorite games to play to this day. The storyline is well written, and while the gameplay takes some getting used to, it's still a fun turn based game. Looking forward to more content and playing more UGC, which is only going to get better the longer the game has been out. Sure, you'll sort through a bunch of rocks to find the gems, but that's what rating systems are for. Thank you, HBS, for taking up this project and giving us fans a fresh game that has given many of us several hours of enjoyment, I do not regret my purchase.
deadsanta Sep 26, 2013 @ 10:46am 
A boycott implies a time-period and a set of demands to lift said boycott, after which we'll buy their stuff again.

I'm not buying a HBS product sight-unseen ever again, forget about boycotting them, I'm blacklisting them.
fredingue Sep 26, 2013 @ 11:32am 
Last edited by fredingue; Sep 26, 2013 @ 11:35am
yarbrough320 Sep 26, 2013 @ 10:32pm 
Originally posted by StuDaBaker =8=:
I played both the Sega Genesis and the SNES version is still one of my favorite games to play to this day. The storyline is well written, and while the gameplay takes some getting used to, it's still a fun turn based game.
Funny how the SNES is so underrated although it always makes the top 25 obscure or cyberpunk lists. It's special I agree. Atmosphere simple. I have only played a few hours of the gen game but its in my que.

Originally posted by deadsanta:
A boycott implies a time-period and a set of demands to lift said boycott, after which we'll buy their stuff again.

I'm not buying a HBS product sight-unseen ever again, forget about boycotting them, I'm blacklisting them.
Lmao Thumbs up or like, In the meantime it seems like Shadowrun Returns has seriously hurt Golem Arcana's chances. (Yay) it hasnt even met its goal halfway. 220,000 with a 500,000 goal.
Last edited by yarbrough320; Sep 28, 2013 @ 3:23pm
Cutlass Jack Sep 26, 2013 @ 11:11pm 
Its not really a boycott if its a game you weren't interested in. They never had your sale.
Cergorach Sep 27, 2013 @ 2:52pm 
As others have said, the folks working on Golem Arcana have already pretty much completed their assignments for Shadowrun Returns, or do you want Jordan personally squashing bugs? That's like expecting a janitor to fix the nuclear reactor... No offense to Jordan ;-) Jordan is the ideas guy, the writer. He makes stuff up, that's what he's good at. Look at Battletech, Shadowrun, Renegade Legion, Earthdawn, Crimson Skies, he was behind a lot of the videogames from those licenses... MechWarrior: Dark Age, MageKnight, HeroClix, etc.

The only problem I have with Jordan is that he starts a good game and moves on, letting others do the maintenance on the game/universe and only revisit the license 18-24 years later to totally re-imagine the game/universe. Shadowrun/Battletech was never the same after the closure of FASA, heck MechWarrior: Dark Age drove many a Battletech fan into a hate filled frenzy... That didn't mean that MWDA was a bad game, it just pretty much annihilated the then current fanbase.

Is Shadowrun Returns exactly as we imagined it? Probably not, but it was a $15 gamble (translates into a €12 game). As I'm a big fan of the old Shadowrun (RPG) that wasn't a loss imho. It's made, the promised DLC is coming out, there's a Steam Workshop so others can make/share content, Jordan has left folks in charge that will handle the bug squashing. Chapter Shadowrun Returns is closed, it will work perfectly well without a decade long support cycle from Jordan.

Golem Arcana is a whole other story, it's not a computer game, it isn't even really a miniatures wargame game. It's a boardgame which requires a computer or tablet. That appeals to a whole different crowd. Not to mention that it's a completely new IP that is not exactly standard in it's appearance. I honestly have some issues with Golem Arcana, but it's not because Shadowrun Returns was badly handled:
#1 It ain't cheap, especially if you live outside the US. the basic game costs $65+$25 shipping, which results in a price of €96+ including taxes and import fees (~$125). That's for a stylus, a few boards/dice and a grand total of 6 minis (40mm-65mm tall). If I want the basic game plus one mini of everything (36 minis 40mm-140+mm) it's going to cost me $425 or €408+ (~$530). That's a completely different kind of gamble to the $15 for Shadowrun Returns. Not to mention that I have zero nostalgic feelings toward GA, as it's a new IP.
#2 It's inflexible by it's nature. Your completely dependent on the computer app and will require extensive support to keep it running on future OSes/hardware and keep it balanced. House rules are not an option. If Jordan's history is any indication, I doubt we'll see him involved in long term support. There maybe longterm support for the game, but that's from the company that owns the IP/license at that time...
#3 It feels/looks clinical. That's a personal opinion. I also have great difficulty relating to the minis, sure I understand they are Golems, but MAN! Are they weird Golems...

I don't mind spending a lot on miniatures KS projects, as long as I get a good amount of minis from it. I spend €360 on the Reaper Bones KS, but that netted me 528 minis (10mm-300+mm). I spend €770 on the Robotech KS, but that will get me 660 minis (40+mm). With GA I'm getting less then 5.5% of the minis, but at 53% of the price. Sure, some are bigger and they are prepainted, but almost useless outside of the GA game. 15mm fantasy isn't a huge market... 1/285-1/300 Mecha is popular, especially the old Macross/Robotech designs in Battletech... The Reaper Bones are useable in just about any fantasy game (and some sci-fi minis in there as well), from RPGs to skirmish games.
Last edited by Cergorach; Sep 27, 2013 @ 2:56pm
yarbrough320 Oct 14, 2013 @ 11:10pm 
Golem Arcana has met it's kickstarter goal. Albeit barely, $ 500,000 goal w 5 hours left. I feel sorry for the miniature action figure/ tabletop crowd who actually think they'll get a quality product. In the meantime we still await Berlin dlc. Could they be spreading themselves too thin? I ask questions. I dare too. Be accountable Jordan and don't start a campaign for yet another new product a month from now. Kickstarter, cyber hustling ha.
Last edited by yarbrough320; Oct 14, 2013 @ 11:12pm
esperanzo Oct 15, 2013 @ 4:23pm 
Originally posted by Cergorach:
Jordan is the ideas guy, the writer. He makes stuff up, that's what he's good at. Look at Battletech, Shadowrun, Renegade Legion, Earthdawn, Crimson Skies, he was behind a lot of the videogames from those licenses... MechWarrior: Dark Age, MageKnight, HeroClix, etc.

Based on SRR, he certainly doesn't come across as the QC guy...

Originally posted by Cergorach:
The only problem I have with Jordan is that he starts a good game and moves on, letting others do the maintenance on the game/universe and only revisit the license 18-24 years later to totally re-imagine the game/universe. Shadowrun/Battletech was never the same after the closure of FASA, heck MechWarrior: Dark Age drove many a Battletech fan into a hate filled frenzy... That didn't mean that MWDA was a bad game, it just pretty much annihilated the then current fanbase.

Is Shadowrun Returns exactly as we imagined it? Probably not, but it was a $15 gamble (translates into a €12 game). As I'm a big fan of the old Shadowrun (RPG) that wasn't a loss imho. It's made, the promised DLC is coming out, there's a Steam Workshop so others can make/share content, Jordan has left folks in charge that will handle the bug squashing. Chapter Shadowrun Returns is closed, it will work perfectly well without a decade long support cycle from Jordan.

Here's the thing. Why would we think that SRR would do perfectly well without Jordan? Jordan heads HBS. He decides what they do. If he has a deadline looming on GA, do we think he wouldn't pull people off SRR to make sure that HBS meets that GA deadline?
They've managed to get 500k for a game priced at $65. Compared to SRR where they got 1.8m for a game priced at $20. (After asking for an initial 400k...)
I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly find that they need more resources for GA than the 500k could get them. And where do we think those resources will come from?

Or do you mean that SRR would do perfectly well without HBS?
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Date Posted: Aug 28, 2013 @ 11:50pm
Posts: 16