RClovesShadowrun Mar 24 @ 6:44pm
Co-founder of Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall indie dev Harebrained Schemes says they'd ♥ to make another expansion, but...
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rez Mar 24 @ 9:45pm 
:\
rentier7419 Mar 25 @ 1:04am 
Then spread the word for DF, so they can do it again
- LET the WORLD KNOW
I'd like to play another great campaign like DF ;P
Aknowsia Mar 25 @ 1:46am 
yeah I'd love for more expansion. I should look into some of the user made runs but I know they'll never be as good as HBS
rez Mar 25 @ 12:18pm 
Originally posted by Aknowsia:
yeah I'd love for more expansion. I should look into some of the user made runs but I know they'll never be as good as HBS
You *think* that-- you don't *know* that. Take a look at the top rated all-time UGC and you'll find a lot of very high caliber content.
RClovesShadowrun Mar 25 @ 7:05pm 
"tis true, some Shadowrun authors, as well as experienced and talented game designers have contributed their talents to UGC for Shadowrun Returns. With time, organization and the growing improvements of the editor, we may very well see community created adventures which rival (or if we're lucky surpass) that of the original campaigns. Some UGC now is as enjoyable as the original DMS campaign to play, despite not being as fully fleshed out, and I loved playing Dead Man's Switch.

That said, I absoluetly want more official campaigns from Jordan, Mitch and the awesome crew at HBS that created an awesome experience like Dragonfall! ^_^
Thadian Mar 26 @ 5:15am 
So...

First, they subsidize the work of the game on modders, and now they are asking players to service as a free advertisement agency?

Incredible. Just incredible.
Philip Marlowe Mar 26 @ 6:12am 
Originally posted by Thadian:
So...

First, they subsidize the work of the game on modders, and now they are asking players to service as a free advertisement agency?

Incredible. Just incredible.

I really do believe there are passionate devs @ HBS and all things being considered there are times when I can look the other way... Plus an honestly decent review or even a recommendation on something you really like and enjoy is pretty reasonable.

Maybe someday creative dreams of a SRR branching out to be developed into a sophisticated virtual tabletop can come to fruition. As of now which gaming company would even dare risk capital on such a cool idea but simultaneously kind of outside of the "comfort" (risk) of those who only want more money? Hmmm... Could it be kickstarted at this early stage?



Last edited by Philip Marlowe; Mar 26 @ 6:32am
pfhned Mar 26 @ 7:38am 
I'm glad I bought it for full 35$ price avoiding any gog-sales. The game's brilliant, it was exactly something I was looking for a long time. I might only have a single friend, but I already started brainwashing him about awesomeness of Shadowrun, and if he wouldn't buy it... I'm gonna buy it for him myself, and will force him to play, lol.
Last edited by pfhned; Mar 26 @ 7:39am
rentier7419 Mar 26 @ 7:41am 
Originally posted by pfhned:
I'm glad I bought it for full 35$ price avoiding any gog-sales. The game's brilliant, it was exactly something I was looking for a long time. I might only have a single friend, but I already started brainwashing him about awesomeness of Shadowrun, and if he wouldn't buy it... I'm gonna buy it for him myself, and will force him to play, lol.
That's the spirit :D
Thadian Mar 26 @ 10:05am 
Originally posted by Philip Marlowe:
Maybe someday creative dreams of a SRR branching out to be developed into a sophisticated virtual tabletop can come to fruition. As of now which gaming company would even dare risk capital on such a cool idea but simultaneously kind of outside of the "comfort" (risk) of those who only want more money? Hmmm... Could it be kickstarted at this early stage?

1. There are multiple virtual tabletop software, including one on Steam Greenlight. The problem is they are all kinda the same program with different skin:

None of them handle up-down movement (think underwater/ariel conflicts) or play nice with hand drawn maps. Many of them sell each "book" ruleset seperate. Many of them only cator to official rules, so if you want houserules in, you are out of luck. I have looked everywhere for a good virtual tabletop. Many of them force every player to buy everything the DM buys.

2. Unfortunately, almost every game is somehow owned by Hasbro, which only cares about milking brand-names for quick-profit at the expense of quality. We can observe their McDonaldization in Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons. Microsoft is somehow associated with owning the Shadowrun licenses, and we all know they don't play nice with others, besides they would want you to let them install 500 pieces of junk on your PC alongside it, or sign some intrusive EULA as bad as EA.

3. SR:R wouldn't be a good virtual tabletop because there isn't a multiplayer mode that allows that kind of interaction. It would need to use a client-to-server type of method to allow the GM to control the world, for example. It also doesn't really capture the depth of Shadowrun enough to be a virtual tabletop.

I would probably pay $50.00 for a good virtual tabletop.
Last edited by Thadian; Mar 26 @ 10:06am
drake_hound Mar 26 @ 3:17pm 
I don´t get it :P seriously , DF numbers of sales does help , but substract roughly 50k (cause of kickstarter backers) .

Original SRR should have roughly 100k sales number . on multiple platform and I am being on the lower number . since steam top 10 always get atleast 100k sales .
So DF sold less maybe half to quarter of the number .

How much more can you expect when they haven´t ported DF over to tablets .
I guess this SRR has to feed the development cost of Golem Arcana
What are the sales number expected , cause I haven´t seen new innovation in DF in technical terms , and technical terms are the most expensive .

Especially for a indie company . also they don´t want to do another kickstarter and understandable cause of the stretch goals , but the kickstarter is what put them on the map .
What amount would be feasible for another campaign since work is already done on the technical part .

Sorry to be so realistic , but saying DF has to sell for another expansion be worth investing.
Doesn´t fly so easily by me , if DF is within expected numbers minus 50k kickstarters .
It should warrant one more expansion , but I guess the studio forgot one thing .
To be sensible in this time of age , you need have expectation differently .
And judge each project ,by it´s revenue especially for a indie company .

I guess unless they are willing to give numbers , which would either suprise me .
Or be over what I estimated or assume .
Sorry to be negative , but it is not negative if this product was meant to be so important.
Then they should have defended it definetly on steam , not when a expansion comes out .

SRR was made with beginning to tablets in mind , DF case maybe tablets are more difficult cause IPAD mini has limited resources and new IOS is taking much more of the crap .
But also each progress of the tablet , means people are buying bigger storage space .


RClovesShadowrun Mar 26 @ 4:27pm 
It's always interesting when "being realistic" is equivalent to not having any actual information so conjecture in a void turns to ridiculous assumptions.

Here's a response to this issue from HBS on the shadowrun forums (partially a response to another post, in a thread on the same topic):

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MITCH HBS

As you can see from the quote, I didn't say that the sales do not justify another expansion. I said that sales need to be strong enough to justify another. We didn't expect the sales of Dragonfall to be amazing out of the gate. It's an expansion to a game that was good but wasn't a hit (although SRR did all right, thank you very much).

IMO, DF is a strong improvement on SRR and we hope that when word gets out, its sales will eventually justify all the hard work that went into it. Reviews are very strong and the people who talk about it on FB, Twitter, info@, say nice things. We have a clear idea of what we want in another expansion campaign (and no, I'm not gonna talk about it yet) but we have to be smart about our time and people investments.

To be crystal clear: We loved making Dragonfall and would love to make another expansion. We spent a lot of time, effort and money on DF and before we commit to another of similar scope and quality, we want to know that it's a smart use of our time.

Passion, we've got plenty of. Smarts...

Anyway, if the community wants another professionally told Shadowrun story, please help by spreading the word about Dragonfall and about HBS. Send the Steam store link to friends you think will like it. Support us in forums after reviews come out. Tweet and retweet. All that 21st Century stuff.

We're doing our best to promote the game but we're a small team of indies and can use all the support we can get.

Believe me, if we CAN make another Shadowrun campaign, we WILL.
----

The link below to the post quoted above is for reference, and it's been stated by HBS before, that they put a lot of their own money in to Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall. The Kickstarter money after non-development costs (Kickstarter/Amazon fees, tax, IP licensing fee, Kickstarter physical rewards) left the studio with roughly $1 million, which in most US small/mid sized companies supports a paid staff of roughly 8 to 10 people for a year, sometimes including non-salary business expenses, sometimes not. Every business is different, but this is a good rule of thumb in the US. HBS has been working on SRR/Dragonfall plus the editor for almost 2 years. Some indie devs are willing to starve (or pretend they do when they have savings, jobs, family to support them, or trust-funds to keep them going) while indie studios usually need to pay their staff, or game development stops. I'm glad HBS has been able to continue support and development on Shadowrun Returns, and sincerely hope they get to keep doing so. Who knows, success might even convince investors to throw a AAA budget at them some day, to bring us ALL THE THINGS. For now, I'd just love to see the next expansion happen, so I'll keep spreading the word about Dragonfall. ^_^

http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/149257#Comment_149257
Last edited by RClovesShadowrun; Mar 26 @ 4:31pm
drake_hound Mar 26 @ 4:54pm 
and 100k sales translated with 10$ translate to how much ? 10 million ...
And I mean 10$ not 30$ .. so before people start thinking about AAA who invest bigger amount thus need higher sales numbers one way or another .

Sorry RC , they might have been working ahead 2 years and needed that last bit of crowd funding , but I am taking 10$ as bare minimum and 100k users are bare minimum worldwide .
drake_hound Mar 26 @ 4:57pm 
SRR isn´t AAA cause it will not reach tripple AAA status for that along you need a lot more things then a game . so basically same as DF isn´t AAA expansion .
While it is a good game , in it´s own right with it own time presented .
Especially for the short amount of time and resources invested into it !
rez Mar 26 @ 4:59pm 
I'm grateful for what HBS has done so far and understand where they're coming from with reluctance to do more full-scale campaigns. People seem to be forgetting that they weren't obligated to include the editor and polish it to the level it is now. Anyone remember the Fallout 2 tools that were eventually released to help modders? There was no official support for them, but they released them because they wanted to help the modding community. HBS took it a step further and made sure their tools were polished and released alongside the main campaign. They've gone above and beyond, in my opinion, and it's too bad that so many people just don't understand that. Unfortunately, the numbers for Dragonfall can't be good---

http://steamcharts.com/app/234650#All
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Date Posted: Mar 24 @ 6:44pm
Posts: 51