Ludo Lense Feb 20 @ 4:15am
This game is not creative enough for how difficult it is (time waste)
Basically roguelikes and rogue-lite's try to balance the difficulty (which is mostly unfair) by having a high degree of randomized mechanics each time you play. In games such as IVAN you can cut your arm off, cast petrify, cast reattach limb and voila you have stone arm or in binding of issac the items affect your playstyle so much that you never know what you are gonna get.

Teleglitch, while I love the artwork, is very samey. The rooms started to blend in after a short while and facing the same enemy over and over again gets tedious.

The enemies that shoot are the worst offenders of this since you basically need to "grind out" their pattern over and over until you are comfortable with them, and it feels like a chore most of the time

Teleglitch has randomizable maps, weapons and enemy placement...it sadly doesn't have a randomized experience. It feels like you are bumping into the same wall all of the time and that you are getting no progress.

P.S: This is more than a pet peeve but it's bad design, imho, to add high level enemies in secret areas. Finding a secret should be rewarding, not frustrating, the game has enough of that has is.

Edit 1: Played the game some more and basically quit. It's not skilled based, it's a waste of time. The movement of the enemies and your own speed are akin to something out of a bullet hell, but it's not, it's a wait around the corner simulator.

At first I liked the camera shifting but it's really a disadvantage for you since you enter a room and before the camera properly aligns to the new layout someone shoots you offscreen, this is frustrating to no end and combined with the fact that the guards (and probably all shoters later levels) have such long ranges it's just unfair.

Secondly. the fact that rooms have both meele and range opponents ruins the game throughly. You encounter a meele creature, you try to postion to fire or dodge and someone shoots you out of left field. Again, frustrating to no end

So what gameplay does all this promote? You inch a pixel at a time trying to hear what creatures you triggered and back pedal when they chase>After the meele guys chasing you are dead you postion yourself behind a corner and wait for the range guys to show and you procede to shotgun them one by one (or leave a bomb and run in case of bigger things but you risk potshots.) That's it...that's 95% of the encounters of this game past level 3 (when the shooty guys show up).
Last edited by Ludo Lense; Feb 20 @ 12:01pm
Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
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TheGoodTheBad&TheGibus Feb 20 @ 11:16am 
Odd, i've never seen enemies in secret areas apart from one circumstance, where 3 walkers are sent at you in a secret area around level 3. Defeating them rewards you with a massive stockpile of items and a secret teleporter to level 5.
White Silla Feb 20 @ 11:24am 
They said that they are working on some sort of weapon randomization
Ludo Lense Feb 20 @ 11:44am 
Originally posted by TheGoodTheBadAndTheGibus:
Odd, i've never seen enemies in secret areas apart from one circumstance, where 3 walkers are sent at you in a secret area around level 3. Defeating them rewards you with a massive stockpile of items and a secret teleporter to level 5.

Well then I am unlucky/lucky. I got that area 3 times and died.
WabbaWay Feb 20 @ 4:14pm 
1. There are no mobs in secret areas aside from the very rare secret in level 3a. It has a ~10% chance of appearing in one playthrough would be my guess. Probably the only thing in the game that's REALLY randomized and has a huge impact on your playthrough. It's very obvious what you're heading into though after you've seen it once, it can be avoided by not entering. It's actually really rewarding to complete that secret since you'll get a lot of bonus loot.
I was really surprised it made it into the DME version of Teleglitch since it doesn't fit the game at all and punishes a few unlucky new players in a dumb way. But hey, now you know not to go in there again.
2. No, compared to other roguelikes, Teleglitch is not very randomized - it reduces replayability but it's required for the game to work. Having too much randomness would make some runs too hard and some impossible. You're supposed to learn from your deaths and then avoid the mistakes that caused you to die in the last playthrough, this would not work if the game was highly randomized. If you don't like that kind of game then that's fine.
3. Pretty sure the camera shifting can be turned off.
4. Movement takes practice like so many other things in this game. Learning can be entertaining or frustrating, depending on who you are, some people doesn't like falling on their ♥♥♥ a bunch of times to finish a game, and that's totally fine - we can't all like the same kind of game.
Ludo Lense Feb 20 @ 5:14pm 
Originally posted by WabbaWay:
1. There are no mobs in secret areas aside from the very rare secret in level 3a. It has a ~10% chance of appearing in one playthrough would be my guess. Probably the only thing in the game that's REALLY randomized and has a huge impact on your playthrough. It's very obvious what you're heading into though after you've seen it once, it can be avoided by not entering. It's actually really rewarding to complete that secret since you'll get a lot of bonus loot.
I was really surprised it made it into the DME version of Teleglitch since it doesn't fit the game at all and punishes a few unlucky new players in a dumb way. But hey, now you know not to go in there again.
2. No, compared to other roguelikes, Teleglitch is not very randomized - it reduces replayability but it's required for the game to work. Having too much randomness would make some runs too hard and some impossible. You're supposed to learn from your deaths and then avoid the mistakes that caused you to die in the last playthrough, this would not work if the game was highly randomized. If you don't like that kind of game then that's fine.
3. Pretty sure the camera shifting can be turned off.
4. Movement takes practice like so many other things in this game. Learning can be entertaining or frustrating, depending on who you are, some people doesn't like falling on their ♥♥♥ a bunch of times to finish a game, and that's totally fine - we can't all like the same kind of game.

1.I'll admit that I was unfair with this one and I was just really really unlucky. I encountered the room 3 times in my first 7 playthroughs. But I did say it was a pet peeve.
2.That argument goes both ways...yes some runs are harder but other runs will be easier, it's kind of the fundamental roguelike experience. It becomes apparent a few hours in that (unless you are gung-ho...which is a fast death) you have to move very slowly and carefully when you enter a new room and sometimes you really can't avoid bullets due to the way the room spawns, ♥♥♥♥ing guards with shotguns that are clinging to the edge of the wall due to bad pathfinding are always a treat. I watched out of curiosity some youtube runs and even the best guys got hit constantly, several guides basically said "well from level 7 ownards pray for those medpacks".
3.This is true but it's a really good feature visually, I really like it, it helps with feeling off solitude and hostility and that something is off. Too bad it messes with the gameplay.
4.I'd argue that the spread on the weapons and the speed of the projectiles makes it almost impossible to properly dodge multiple shooters (I am sure someone with 1000 hours will say they did it). The combat (expecting knifey-knifey) almost feels like a puzzle really....open room, aggro target, backpedal, decide best method of dispatching (like put bomb on floor when they are close) and then profit or wait around the corner with the shotgun when the open the door to chase you.



GU8 Feb 20 @ 6:26pm 
I didn't even know this was a rogue-like. I just thought it was difficult.

But the game is evolving. You should have tried it a couple of months ago. Ammo and items were so sparse the game was closer to a survival game than a rogue like.

Maybe you were mistaken into thinking this was a rogue-like. Which I don't think is a bad idea, because I am enjoying the way the game has evolved. Perhaps the game needs more emphasis on crafting to change up the game a bit. Because the last time I played a couple of months ago, you had pretty much the same few items to get past the first couple of levels; a pistol and shotgun, few bullets, items to make a can gun and maybe something to upgrade the AGL.
Ludo Lense Feb 21 @ 3:13am 
Originally posted by GU8:
I didn't even know this was a rogue-like. I just thought it was difficult.

But the game is evolving. You should have tried it a couple of months ago. Ammo and items were so sparse the game was closer to a survival game than a rogue like.

Maybe you were mistaken into thinking this was a rogue-like. Which I don't think is a bad idea, because I am enjoying the way the game has evolved. Perhaps the game needs more emphasis on crafting to change up the game a bit. Because the last time I played a couple of months ago, you had pretty much the same few items to get past the first couple of levels; a pistol and shotgun, few bullets, items to make a can gun and maybe something to upgrade the AGL.

Roguelikes and survival games have a lot in game but they are fundamentally different. They both have a lot in common but one focuses on long term gameplay and progression (building a house, gathering the materials, planning ahead, finding alies if it's multyplayer) while the other focuses on difficult encounters one after the other on a small scale.

Think of it in terms of the athletic olympic trial. There is the 100 m sprint which is the rogue like and the endurance run where you have 10.000 meters to finish. So telegltich has always been a roguelike.
Last edited by Ludo Lense; Feb 21 @ 3:14am
WabbaWay Feb 21 @ 3:46am 
Originally posted by Thoughtshard:

1.I'll admit that I was unfair with this one and I was just really really unlucky. I encountered the room 3 times in my first 7 playthroughs. But I did say it was a pet peeve.
2.That argument goes both ways...yes some runs are harder but other runs will be easier, it's kind of the fundamental roguelike experience. It becomes apparent a few hours in that (unless you are gung-ho...which is a fast death) you have to move very slowly and carefully when you enter a new room and sometimes you really can't avoid bullets due to the way the room spawns, ♥♥♥♥ing guards with shotguns that are clinging to the edge of the wall due to bad pathfinding are always a treat. I watched out of curiosity some youtube runs and even the best guys got hit constantly, several guides basically said "well from level 7 ownards pray for those medpacks".
3.This is true but it's a really good feature visually, I really like it, it helps with feeling off solitude and hostility and that something is off. Too bad it messes with the gameplay.
4.I'd argue that the spread on the weapons and the speed of the projectiles makes it almost impossible to properly dodge multiple shooters (I am sure someone with 1000 hours will say they did it). The combat (expecting knifey-knifey) almost feels like a puzzle really....open room, aggro target, backpedal, decide best method of dispatching (like put bomb on floor when they are close) and then profit or wait around the corner with the shotgun when the open the door to chase you.

2. The game was actually more random in the original version (the one that launched on desura), and it does indeed go both ways... So it's purely my own opinion when i say that i prefer the DME version - this actually goes against what I would like in more classic roguelikes (because randomness = replayability), but the satisfaction i get from playing Teleglitch stems from learning from my mistakes, not roll the dice differently. But i can absolutely understand why you would feel differently.
3. It really is a good feature, and it kinda does mess with the gameplay I agree... But hey we can't have everything.
4. Level 1 - 3 is pretty knife-intensive, but other than that you're mostly correct. It's a fairly slow game and you have be cautious and think about your every move (exaggeration). Again, it boils down to what you like in a game - I like the shifts you have to make between planning out your next move and then executing your strategy, without the planning part I probably wouldn't call it a roguelike.

TLDR; This game is a matter of taste. :)
Space Voyager Feb 27 @ 11:47am 
I've had a zombie tube appear inside a secret. Scared the hell out of me and I used a full agl clip...
Hahaha. Meme Mar 2 @ 11:26am 

Teleglitch is not a roguelike. It's almost nothing like the game rogue, so therefor, it is not a roguelike. It's simply a top-down shooter.
Last edited by Hahaha. Meme; Mar 2 @ 11:27am
Ludo Lense Mar 2 @ 12:51pm 
Originally posted by golgo factory:
Teleglitch is not a roguelike. It's almost nothing like the game rogue, so therefor, it is not a roguelike. It's simply a top-down shooter.

That's not how genres work. It's about the experience, not the set in stone mechanics. Space invaders is a also top down shooter but teleglitch feels more close to Rogue.

Maybe we will have a term that replaces roguelike later on, the same way FPS replaced Doomclone but until then the term "roguelike" to describe a modular,randomized,permadeath,level segmented game is accurate.

An POV perspective does not necesarily define genre. Awesomenauts has a 2D sidescrolling perspective, Super Monday Night Combat is a third person shooter and Dota has a top down strategy pespective. They are still Moba's or Dota-clones.
Mr Fuzzbutt Mar 6 @ 5:53pm 
Originally posted by Thoughtshard:
Maybe we will have a term that replaces roguelike later on, the same way FPS replaced Doomclone but until then the term "roguelike" to describe a modular,randomized,permadeath,level segmented game is accurate.

PDL

Procedural Death Labyrinth
Space Voyager Mar 10 @ 2:19pm 
The more I play this game, the more I agree with the original post here. It is a very hard game and one of the things bothering me is that if you are lucky enough to earn a head start (start in higher levels), that start is seriously hampered by lack of resources. You simply need to start from the start...
juksmann  [developer] Mar 10 @ 3:31pm 
If you try to play it like Doom, then yeah, it will be really hard.
The important thing is to figure out the most efficient tactics.
Having good reflexes and accurate aim will help, but it's not what this game is about.
PS: Backpedaling and knifing isn't the best way.
Ludo Lense Mar 10 @ 4:05pm 
Originally posted by juksmann:
If you try to play it like Doom, then yeah, it will be really hard.
The important thing is to figure out the most efficient tactics.
Having good reflexes and accurate aim will help, but it's not what this game is about.
PS: Backpedaling and knifing isn't the best way.

I don't want to get in an argument with a dev because I know the hardships of developing a game, the fact that you "shipped" a game is a triumph in and of itself. But the figuring out part is frustrating due to how much you lose when you die. Hotline miami,vvvvvv or super meat boy try to balance this by instant respawning (almost 0 progress lost) and roguelikes like IVAN try to have such diversity in gameplay that the end goal really isn't important (it's more about the journey).

Teleglitch doesn't have that much interaction between systems and does actively want you to finish it (It has checkpoints and such) but it takes way too much of your time to "master" it for how rewarding it feels. One hung up on a wall guard with a shotgun that surprises you can instantly end your run. That just feels like you wasted 1 hour of your life tippy toeing corridors.

If you had any analytics I am curios what's the average number of times it took people to beat the snake boss.
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Date Posted: Feb 20 @ 4:15am
Posts: 17