Kenshi > General Discussions > Topic Details
Kodiak Jun 24, 2013 @ 2:15pm
An issue that needs addressing. A worthwhile article.
After having written an overly passionate rebuttal to the behaviour on this board, I've decided to take a step back and really think about what I wanted to say.

HaTsUnE_NeKo actually already touched on this a little bit in a recent post.


Crowd funding and early access is a really good idea. I can see now why it hasn't really been done until now though, and the Steam forums are quickly becoming a prime example of such.

Independent development is exactly what it sounds like. It's a developer starting a game with absolutely zero financial backing. This means no publisher. No publisher ensures that the developer retains full creative rights to their work. I'm sure many on forums have or have at least witnessed people complaining about how diluted the industry has become. A focus that has shifted from making creative games that change the way we play to games that will sell.

The AAA industry has become a lot like Hollywood in that respect.

Crowd Funding and Early Access is the answer to that problem. Instead of looking for a publisher, a developer may now turn to the fans, and have their dream game become a reality without having to sacrifice their original vision of what they wanted to make.

This means risky ideas, and concepts that have never been done before have a greater chance of seeing the light of day.

The thing a lot of people need to realize about Early Access and crowd funding is that:

A: You're not always going to get a guaranteed return on your investment.

B: For all intents and purposes, there is very little you can legally do to hold the developer responsible to giving you a return.

But something is happening that I don't think anybody predicted. Us, the gaming community, the same people that have said "The gaming industry sucks compared to what it used to be" "That game sucked because it was too rushed/Too similar to X game/Not enough content/Too Buggy." We answer to a developer with a truly unique vision, making a game that has NEVER been done before. Nobody has ever attempted to do what this man is doing.

We tell him to "Hurry up"

"We want to pull our investment, because it's taking too long"

"We want X thing implemented because the game will suck otherwise"

You know who that sounds like?

Does that not sound exactly like those "Evil" publishing companies you've decided to avoid by breathing life into this project? Like a publisher, you're asked to take a risk...Not with millions of dollars, but with $15, and you still sound exactly like them.

Publishers are good at giving you exactly what you want. Or are they? I think you all need to take a step back, and decide what it is you want from this project, and whether opting into crowd funding is something that you, or even this community is ready for.

Your money is gone on this one already, no point in complaining. go outside, play other games, sit back, it will be completed eventually. OR it won't. You still got to try a game that you otherwise never would have if you hadn't opted in.

Either way, thanks for sifting through this long rant. I hope you all took something from it. It's a real far cry from what I had originally written. I apologize for that stike of passion. :)


Last edited by Kodiak; Jun 24, 2013 @ 2:23pm
Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
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HaTsUnE_NeKo Jun 24, 2013 @ 2:51pm 
definatly a good come back.
i also have had my moment of erm fury hehe

Well done.
+1
Hbrown[PT] Jun 24, 2013 @ 4:38pm 
I still like to believe that was those companies that made players like this at least some, like when parents spoil kids. (a tiny bit of hope so to say lol)
RusticularCancer Jun 24, 2013 @ 5:19pm 
i would agree. well said. I have a full time job, a girlfriend, and a super busy family. If i had to make a game it would take alot longer. its one man.. maybe a few free-lancers along the way, but the bulk of it is one man. i totally get it. put it down and play something else till it comes.
Andarvi Jun 24, 2013 @ 5:24pm 
If I back an independent developer, I can expect a finished product eventually. I know I'm not guaranteed one, but that is no reason why we can't make our displeasure known on the forums.

I know that software developement is a tricky business (personally) and it's easy to be overwhelmend especially if one is developing a game like Kenshi alone, but if the developer at least tried to respect his own deadlines and made weekly progress reports, it would decrease the ammount of whining on the forums immensely.

Narwhals'R'Awesome!*eDs* Jun 24, 2013 @ 6:15pm 
+1 rep
Earl of Fistfuckingham Jun 24, 2013 @ 6:36pm 
early access should be pulled and steam makes a rule for all new indie devs using it when it goes up again either deliver said game, or steam refunds and then seeks recompense from the dev. as it stands the whole early access thing is extremely misleading if you pay your money and the dev could just quit and he wins you lose.

that said i agree with the OP, im not rushing chris or any of the other alpha titles ive bought. i didnt expect it to be finished for a year when i bought it. and ive already got 55 hours out of kenshi, making this game roughly 25 cents an hour for entertainment. i just think steam should in some way cover our asses in terms of early access.
gmat Jun 24, 2013 @ 7:22pm 
Originally posted by Kodiak:
We tell him to "Hurry up"

"We want to pull our investment, because it's taking too long"

"We want X thing implemented because the game will suck otherwise"

You know who that sounds like?

Does that not sound exactly like those "Evil" publishing companies you've decided to avoid by breathing life into this project? Like a publisher, you're asked to take a risk...Not with millions of dollars, but with $15, and you still sound exactly like them.

HAHAHAHA! Greatest post ever on this forum! And I have been following it since it started.
OneOfBorg Jun 24, 2013 @ 8:44pm 
Cheers to OP and a huge +1

Welcome to the world of investing, and by definition investing is the OPPOSITE of instant gratification. Time to pry your mouth off mama's ♥♥♥ and put on your big boy undies.

And sometimes investments don't pan out, bad things happen to good people. Thats life, stop complaining and get over it.

And for $15, i really think i've got my money's worth. I've enjoyed the game thus far and am eagerly awaiting the next patch.

ps. stop inflicting your whiny attitudes on the rest of humanity. you degrade our speices with every keystroke.
Earl of Fistfuckingham Jun 25, 2013 @ 7:18am 
Originally posted by taylor_julander:
Cheers to OP and a huge +1

Welcome to the world of investing, and by definition investing is the OPPOSITE of instant gratification. Time to pry your mouth off mama's ♥♥♥ and put on your big boy undies.

And sometimes investments don't pan out, bad things happen to good people. Thats life, stop complaining and get over it.

And for $15, i really think i've got my money's worth. I've enjoyed the game thus far and am eagerly awaiting the next patch.

ps. stop inflicting your whiny attitudes on the rest of humanity. you degrade our speices with every keystroke.

This isnt kickstarter or an online poker site dude. we arent gambling or investing, we are buying. when i see the game advertised as alpha and i buy it. i expect alpha - beta - full game or a full refund. this is the reason i havent and wont buy planetary annihilation. like me, no one on these forums seems to know exactly what they are buying from early access and what rights they have regarding their purchase.
Sir Kibble,Not A Number! Jun 25, 2013 @ 9:34am 
I bought this game about..4 days ago and have spent 28 or so hours on it,that's more time invested in this game than most AAA games have life span,and frankly if £11 or 15$ aren't worth 28+ hours worth of entertainmen,what is? This game as it is now is worth MORE just for the entertainment value alone,if you want to be up on your high horse and DEMAND a "better" game you can go ahead and demand away,but to demand a refund just shows that you're a whiney self centered lil prick who needs to grow up look at their time logged for this game and think "was the time spent worth the money?" because for me,and ALOT of people,it is it's worth every penny.
Earl of Fistfuckingham Jun 25, 2013 @ 3:09pm 
Originally posted by Sir Kibble:
I bought this game about..4 days ago and have spent 28 or so hours on it,that's more time invested in this game than most AAA games have life span,and frankly if £11 or 15$ aren't worth 28+ hours worth of entertainmen,what is? This game as it is now is worth MORE just for the entertainment value alone,if you want to be up on your high horse and DEMAND a "better" game you can go ahead and demand away,but to demand a refund just shows that you're a whiney self centered lil prick who needs to grow up look at their time logged for this game and think "was the time spent worth the money?" because for me,and ALOT of people,it is it's worth every penny.

totally agree, i played it for 55 hours from the hour it came out till about 5 days after, then decided to stop and wait till the whole thing was done. and you probably got to use a hell of a lot more content than i did at the first day of alpha.
Sohei Jun 27, 2013 @ 6:03pm 
Tough part of an indie development project is breaking up the project into manageable chunks. Also tough to show much progress if you try to do everything at once. Worse still, if the developer is not organized and disciplined enough to make effective use of their time they might wind up in "development hell" for years. I will withold judgment for a few months and see how this project progresses.
Last edited by Sohei; Jun 27, 2013 @ 6:05pm
(D12)JOE1st Jun 27, 2013 @ 7:16pm 
thank you for your words wonderfull post
Ishaye Jun 28, 2013 @ 5:47pm 
I applaud you OP it was a great read. And i can tell you the exact problem with gamers now. Its gotten WAY too mainstream every joe schmoe thinks they are a gamer cause they play games like call of battlefield honor and super mario wii u advance 5. But the fact is they are a bunch of fake flaggers just like so called "nerds" who do it to be edgy and cool.

They wouldnt know a good game if it bit them in the face they are the people who think if its not made by EA/Blizz/Activision/etc its not going to be a good game. They say they hate those publishing companies but they LOVE them cause they give them the sweet graphical mulitplayer shoot shoot bang bang garbage they crave. The publishers tell them what to buy they dont let you test them. Cause quite frankly they dont give a damn about your input they tell you what you like and you lick it up like a dog that hasnt been fed for days.

The regular gamer nowadays is a peon they dont know what they want and they have to be told what is good. Games where good when a developing team would take ages and it was a project of love. Now games are a project of revenue that you throw your money at with no disregard.

Indie development is the BEST thing that happened to gaming in about a decade, and its becoming more and more popular however its becoming more popular to the ♥♥♥♥s that ruined gaming in the first place and my god i hope these developers can see through these bottom feeding masses and see the people who actually love gaming. Or else we will get more complains of "MULTIPLAYER 4EVER", "WHERES MY UPDATES", or better yet "DIS GAEM LOOKS LIKE ♥♥♥♥, WHERES MY REFUND" You idiots who galabant around and pose as a gamer are human feces please do the world a favor and go back to farmville or your mobile phone games.
Last edited by Ishaye; Jun 28, 2013 @ 5:49pm
Earl of Fistfuckingham Jun 28, 2013 @ 5:53pm 
Originally posted by Ishaye:
I applaud you OP it was a great read. And i can tell you the exact problem with gamers now. Its gotten WAY too mainstream every joe schmoe thinks they are a gamer cause they play games like call of battlefield honor and super mario wii u advance 5. But the fact is they are a bunch of fake flaggers just like so called "nerds" who do it to be edgy and cool.

They wouldnt know a good game if it bit them in the face they are the people who think if its not made by EA/Blizz/Activision/etc its not going to be a good game. They say they hate those publishing companies but they LOVE them cause they give them the sweet graphical mulitplayer shoot shoot bang bang garbage they crave. The publishers tell them what to buy they dont let you test them. Cause quite frankly they dont give a damn about your input they tell you what you like and you lick it up like a dog that hasnt been fed for days.

The regular gamer nowadays is a peon they dont know what they want and they have to be told what is good. Games where good when a developing team would take ages and it was a project of love. Now games are a project of revenue that you throw your money at with no disregard.

Indie development is the BEST thing that happened to gaming in about a decade, and its becoming more and more popular however its becoming more popular to the ♥♥♥♥s that ruined gaming in the first place and my god i hope these developers can see through these bottom feeding masses and see the people who actually love gaming. Or else we will get more complains of "MULTIPLAYER 4EVER", "WHERES MY UPDATES", or better yet "DIS GAEM LOOKS LIKE ♥♥♥♥, WHERES MY REFUND" You idiots who galabant around and pose as a gamer are human feces please do the world a favor and go kill yourself and stop ruining the gaming industry its best left if you go back to farmville or your mobile phone games.

lol. while i agree with most of your post, i would say "a good game is in the hand on the controller" but yeah i see where you are getting at, if the people who cant accept that there are others out there who might like a different type of game are too vocal, all we will get is first person shooters and wow clones. they seem to think they are the only person with the money in his wallet to buy a game. and if they personally dont buy it, then the game is doomed to fail.
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Date Posted: Jun 24, 2013 @ 2:15pm
Posts: 30