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Hurinfan Dec 7, 2013 @ 12:49am
The ending
I just finished the game. I was a bit disappointed in the ending. Is the story about how love triumphs or the foolishness of youth? I thought they were very stupid to run off together. I liked Sam until she ran away. It just seemed like the story built up to this great idea of how love will work but they're 18 and running away.

The storymakers were probably just trying to tell a story. And in that they succeeded but I was just disappointed that it ended that way.
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EYazz Dec 7, 2013 @ 2:47am 
The whole atmosphere of the game makes you feel uncomfortable. Throughout the game, you think you may get attacked by a monster or something. I guess the suspense builds up as you approach the attic. Everyone assumed that you would find her dead in the attic or something, which didn't happen. I thought it was a fantastic, immersive and atmospheric story.
Hurinfan Dec 7, 2013 @ 2:49am 
I agree completely about the atmosphere and buildup and how the ending that subverted my expectations but your reply didn't address the problem I had with the ending at all.
EYazz Dec 7, 2013 @ 2:52am 
Sorry. I agree with your original post, in the sense that realistically, their parents are likely to search for them until they are found, which kinda destroys the whole running off into the sunset idea that the game ended with. I guess the whole idea behind the story is how love can make you do anything, which is a little cheesy.
Ninja 1^^ Dec 7, 2013 @ 10:26am 
The big deal isn't necessarily that Sam ran away, that probably won't last long, but Lonnie did actually ditch Basic Training for her, which is a pretty long term life decision that affects both of them. And if Sam is that important to her, we can assume they have a good chance at making it work. Especially considering that running away for a little while doesn't negate Sam's acceptance into college, so she's got that going for her.
LemonDialectic Dec 9, 2013 @ 4:13am 
I don't think there needs to be any real strong moral message to be read here.
The story is a slice of life drama with no strong moral agenda.
Knight of Skeleton Dec 9, 2013 @ 5:38pm 
Originally posted by LemonDialectic:
I don't think there needs to be any real strong moral message to be read here.
The story is a slice of life drama with no strong moral agenda.
Much agree.
Hurinfan Dec 10, 2013 @ 1:07am 
I agree there doesn't need to be any moral agenda and I often get very annoyed when that kind of thing is obvious but I was unable to enjoy the ending as much because I respected the characters less because of their actions.
3lives Dec 11, 2013 @ 4:03pm 
What would actually happen if someone doesn't arrive at boot camp at the last minute?
Are people already in a contract or does it start with first day at camp? And what would be the repercussions?
TheScribe Dec 12, 2013 @ 6:55am 
Here's something to keep in mind: Sam and Lonnie's parents are fairly religious. (Note Lonnie's cross necklace in the locker and the plethera of Bibles in the house.) Her parents are less than supportive of her sexuality, and are actually not likely to go looking for her. This is the early-md 90s, mind you. The writers did a lot of research on the experiences of gay kids in the 90s, and this is entirely a feasible ending considering the time and the situation. More often than not, a gay kid growing up during that period (and to some extent even today), had to make a choice between maintining a relationship with their family, or coming out of the closet and pursuing love. This is the impetus behind Sam and Lonnie's decision. Also, keep mind their 'zine is entirely anti-authority/anti-male-hegemony. For them to seek to break away from a heteronormative culture and find a place they belong is not so unheard of even today amongst gay youths.
I think you have this idea that Sam and Lonnie's relationship and love is easy for them. And because of that ease, it doesn't make sense to try to make it on their own in the big scary world. When, in reality, it is the opposite. During this time frame, for these two gay kids, it would have been easier to strike out on their own than to try to make their families understand.
(Source: being a gay kid in the 90s and an LGBT Studies major.)
Last edited by TheScribe; Dec 12, 2013 @ 6:56am
Pizza game pizza life Dec 12, 2013 @ 7:44pm 
When I first finished the game I had accidentally skipped the note where Sam explained where she had gone. I just assumed that the implication was that she killed herself and it made me incredibly sad. Then I went back and found more stuff and was a little happier with the results, even if they were slightly less poetically tragic. Great game.
Mr Long Pants Dec 13, 2013 @ 7:21am 
Originally posted by TheScribe:
Here's something to keep in mind: Sam and Lonnie's parents are fairly religious. (Note Lonnie's cross necklace in the locker and the plethera of Bibles in the house.) Her parents are less than supportive of her sexuality, and are actually not likely to go looking for her. This is the early-md 90s, mind you. The writers did a lot of research on the experiences of gay kids in the 90s, and this is entirely a feasible ending considering the time and the situation. More often than not, a gay kid growing up during that period (and to some extent even today), had to make a choice between maintining a relationship with their family, or coming out of the closet and pursuing love. This is the impetus behind Sam and Lonnie's decision. Also, keep mind their 'zine is entirely anti-authority/anti-male-hegemony. For them to seek to break away from a heteronormative culture and find a place they belong is not so unheard of even today amongst gay youths.
I think you have this idea that Sam and Lonnie's relationship and love is easy for them. And because of that ease, it doesn't make sense to try to make it on their own in the big scary world. When, in reality, it is the opposite. During this time frame, for these two gay kids, it would have been easier to strike out on their own than to try to make their families understand.
(Source: being a gay kid in the 90s and an LGBT Studies major.)

Can't really agree with very much of this.

Listening to the commentary gives me the idea Sam's family are not THAT religious and the bibles around the house are more something they do because they feel like having a bible on hand is something they should do to be "good catholics". Whoever the main guy on the commentary is says that this is based on his own family and growing up in a casually religious household. The idea is mentioned that Lonnie's father may be more religious but all we've got to go on there is the cross around her neck in that picture, there was originally some idea of her being shipped off to live with her mother in Florida but that was scrapped.

And where exactly did you get the idea that their parents are not going to look for her because they don't support her sexuality? Sorry but that's way off. At no point in the game are we ever given reason to believe that Sam's parents are at all ashamed or angry with their daughter, they just don't understand and believe it's some sort of phase. There's the note about reprogramming gay kids or whatever but I believe this comes from a place of sheer bewilderment at what to do to deal with their daughter.

There are also a heap of notes making it clear that Sam's parents are trying to communicate with her, trying to communicate with her and she is pushing them away as part of this anti-authority/anti-male-hegemony thing. So what exactly are they supposed to think or do? Their daughter moves to a new school and within a year starts getting into trouble, acting out and rebelling against authority then it comes out that she is having a relationship with this girl at school who seems to be the cause of it all. As you say it's the mid-90s and seeing their daughters sexuality as a phase may be naive but it is never presented as anything other then that.

Let's not also forget at the same time as this is going on Sam's parent's are going through enough drama of their own with their marriage crumbling under the weight of their own respective issues, not the least of which being her mother toying with the idea of infidelity and her father's scarred childhood and coming back to live in the house where it all happened.

I have to agree with the OP. At first I thought it was a happy ending which gave me a warm fuzzy feeling but mainly just because we didn't find Sam hanging by her neck in the attic. Thinking about it for a while the whole running away from a seemingly loving family with sunny ideas of living happily ever after just comes off as extremely selfish and childlike.

I mean the entire second half of the game it keeps getting laid on how bad Sam is going to feel when she can't see Lonnie anymore and while I don't doubt they love each other, their parents love them more and we're given no reason think otherwise besides some bibles clumsily placed around the house. So how bad is it going to be for Sam's parents when they get home to find that their youngest daughter feeling nothing but resentment and scorn for them has run away from home and they may never see her again?

But no they have bibles around the house so forget about that, they showed the necklace back together at the end so everythings golden.
Hurinfan Dec 13, 2013 @ 4:19pm 
Originally posted by Mr Long Pants:
Originally posted by TheScribe:
Here's something to keep in mind: Sam and Lonnie's parents are fairly religious. (Note Lonnie's cross necklace in the locker and the plethera of Bibles in the house.) Her parents are less than supportive of her sexuality, and are actually not likely to go looking for her. This is the early-md 90s, mind you. The writers did a lot of research on the experiences of gay kids in the 90s, and this is entirely a feasible ending considering the time and the situation. More often than not, a gay kid growing up during that period (and to some extent even today), had to make a choice between maintining a relationship with their family, or coming out of the closet and pursuing love. This is the impetus behind Sam and Lonnie's decision. Also, keep mind their 'zine is entirely anti-authority/anti-male-hegemony. For them to seek to break away from a heteronormative culture and find a place they belong is not so unheard of even today amongst gay youths.
I think you have this idea that Sam and Lonnie's relationship and love is easy for them. And because of that ease, it doesn't make sense to try to make it on their own in the big scary world. When, in reality, it is the opposite. During this time frame, for these two gay kids, it would have been easier to strike out on their own than to try to make their families understand.
(Source: being a gay kid in the 90s and an LGBT Studies major.)

Can't really agree with very much of this.

Listening to the commentary gives me the idea Sam's family are not THAT religious and the bibles around the house are more something they do because they feel like having a bible on hand is something they should do to be "good catholics". Whoever the main guy on the commentary is says that this is based on his own family and growing up in a casually religious household. The idea is mentioned that Lonnie's father may be more religious but all we've got to go on there is the cross around her neck in that picture, there was originally some idea of her being shipped off to live with her mother in Florida but that was scrapped.

And where exactly did you get the idea that their parents are not going to look for her because they don't support her sexuality? Sorry but that's way off. At no point in the game are we ever given reason to believe that Sam's parents are at all ashamed or angry with their daughter, they just don't understand and believe it's some sort of phase. There's the note about reprogramming gay kids or whatever but I believe this comes from a place of sheer bewilderment at what to do to deal with their daughter.

There are also a heap of notes making it clear that Sam's parents are trying to communicate with her, trying to communicate with her and she is pushing them away as part of this anti-authority/anti-male-hegemony thing. So what exactly are they supposed to think or do? Their daughter moves to a new school and within a year starts getting into trouble, acting out and rebelling against authority then it comes out that she is having a relationship with this girl at school who seems to be the cause of it all. As you say it's the mid-90s and seeing their daughters sexuality as a phase may be naive but it is never presented as anything other then that.

Let's not also forget at the same time as this is going on Sam's parent's are going through enough drama of their own with their marriage crumbling under the weight of their own respective issues, not the least of which being her mother toying with the idea of infidelity and her father's scarred childhood and coming back to live in the house where it all happened.

I have to agree with the OP. At first I thought it was a happy ending which gave me a warm fuzzy feeling but mainly just because we didn't find Sam hanging by her neck in the attic. Thinking about it for a while the whole running away from a seemingly loving family with sunny ideas of living happily ever after just comes off as extremely selfish and childlike.

I mean the entire second half of the game it keeps getting laid on how bad Sam is going to feel when she can't see Lonnie anymore and while I don't doubt they love each other, their parents love them more and we're given no reason think otherwise besides some bibles clumsily placed around the house. So how bad is it going to be for Sam's parents when they get home to find that their youngest daughter feeling nothing but resentment and scorn for them has run away from home and they may never see her again?

But no they have bibles around the house so forget about that, they showed the necklace back together at the end so everythings golden.

Thank you. You said this more detailed and more accurately than I ever could.
rms Dec 13, 2013 @ 9:44pm 
Originally posted by Mr Long Pants:
Originally posted by TheScribe:
But no they have bibles around the house so forget about that, they showed the necklace back together at the end so everythings golden.

Wait, I must have missed this necklace reference. Is there an overt signal in the game that xianity is compatible with the gay lifestyle?
Mr Long Pants Dec 23, 2013 @ 8:30am 
I may have mixed you up between the necklace Sam bought and the necklace Lonnie is wearing in the picture in Sam's locker.

The necklace Sam bought for Lonnie was shown reforged at the end of the credits meant to reinforce that warm fuzzy feeling I mentioned. Seems to have worked for most people I guess with all the GOTY praise this game got.

There's nothing in the game to say that Christianity is totally INcompatible with the gay lifestyle. It's just when some people see bibles lying around the house it feeds into their basic idea that anybody who goes to church must hate gay people.

Now I do think the parents in the game were severely underwritten but I will still give the devs credit that they didn't simply turn them into the "I have no daughter!!!" type of religious characters. The thing is this leads into the fridge horror of the ending because it means Sam is in fact running away from a family that loves her.
Hi I'm Kabby Dec 23, 2013 @ 9:49am 
Originally posted by 3lives:
What would actually happen if someone doesn't arrive at boot camp at the last minute?
Are people already in a contract or does it start with first day at camp? And what would be the repercussions?

Technically if you've signed a contract...it's called DEP (Delayed Entry Program...which is what a lot of ROTC people do), the military has the right to force you to report for duty. However, up until you actually report you can back out because the military doesn't really pursue people for that. I don't think they've forced anyone into boot camp since the 60s or 70s. The modern US Armed Forces doesn't want people that don't want to be there. It's an all highly trained, specialized, volunteer force. People that don't want to be there don't take it seriously, thus puts people in danger, wastes Army/Navy/Marine/Air Force time and money.

Anyway, the point is Lonnie would've been fine legally. Her and Sam would've had to find some way of supporting themselves and a place to live. Both ♥♥♥♥♥♥ away good education and careers in order to be together. Whether it was youthful stupidity or true love, that's up to the individual to decide for themselves I suppose. Personally, I'd like to believe they found a way to make it work and lived decent lives together.
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Date Posted: Dec 7, 2013 @ 12:49am
Posts: 17