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Adelion Oct 5, 2013 @ 12:42pm
[Spoiler] Question concerning some ending achievements
Well, i finished the game today (under "heavy" help of a guide for the last quarter of the game) and then looked what achievements would be still available. Some of them say you have to finish the game with the entire cast present. So I have to do everything in the game under 10 hours?
Just out of curiousity: How large would my error margin be for this? Speak: What is the fastest time you can complete the game?

Additionally: I figure I'm not patienced or smart enough to solve all the puzzles alone but I understood them after reading/completing them by chance. So this is possible I know. But are there also hints for all of the coin chests or other bonus items? For example the coin chest in the Tower of Ruin needed Shuriken to be found. Or the sacred orb in the Twins Labyrinth: I know you could say that it is mirrored and on the right side is a chest so there must be one on the left too. But a.) not the whole labyrinth is mirrored identically and b.) the entry on the left is smaller I think. I jumped there before but missed and thought there is nothing. Can you find everything by thinking or are some minor bonus items just based on luck? Also how do I know all places I need to use the key fairy? Is there a sign (need to check this)?

And lastly: I read quickly how to open Hell Temple: I can not think of any stone tablet concerning this. Will Mulbruk give the hints or was there an additional source?
Last edited by Adelion; Oct 5, 2013 @ 12:43pm
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
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GeminiSaint Oct 5, 2013 @ 1:08pm 
I can complete the game in about 8 in-game hours, 100% item/soft/orbs, Hell Temple included (normal mode).

There are no hints for coin chests.

Speaking to Mulbruk after defeating all 8 bosses begins the Hell Temple sidequest. There are some hints along the way, given by the NPCs you have to interact with, but they are particularly obscure.
Adelion Oct 5, 2013 @ 2:34pm 
Hm, would mean an error margin of 2 hours. But you need to play hard mode or otherwise you can't get the complete cast. It would probably mean that i need to pay more attention at the bosses and more time healing -_-

I see, I need to be extremely bored before even considering doing this. I think I will complete Hell Temple and search the Developer Rooms.

Thanks for the answer.
Hidden Distance Oct 5, 2013 @ 3:36pm 
The save that I currently have on file that was 100% before fighting mother was somewhere around 5 hours, and if memory serves I wasn't in any great hurry to finish.

10 hours should be way more than enough, but you definitely need to know your way around, and what you need to do without too much wandering.
Vilurum Oct 5, 2013 @ 7:11pm 
A recent game I had where I played for not only 100% ending qualifications but also 100% scans and 100% Xelpud/Mulbruk conversations, and I took plenty of detours to wander around and wasn't really trying to be super efficient. Even then I only ended up around 7 hours.

Really, the game goes pretty fast once you actually know where to go, what to do, and how to solve puzzles. Takes a few playthroughs to know it that well, though.

Incidentally, as a clarification, the "entire cast present" ending achievement, Let's Go Together, does not require Dracuet for beating Hell Temple. (There are other achievements that do require Hell Temple, but that's not one of them.)
Traysandor Oct 6, 2013 @ 7:56pm 
My Any% record is 1 hour, 49 minutes, 58 seconds. (Getting to the end of the game using any means necessary - no cheating) the last time I actually finished a run of the game
I haven't finished 100% in quite some time, but I think it was about 5 hours or so last time I played it.

I should go play that again, just because.
m9 Oct 9, 2013 @ 3:23pm 
You can always reload your last save if you end up taking too long for something. It's what I did since the achievement uses the in-game clock.. especially for Hell Temple. I think I was around 8 hours before I had to enter Hell Temple using lots of reloading.. since it's the worst part.

Then the last area of the game should take only like 20-30 minutes or something.. assuming you've finished the game before.

Are you going to use a guide for finding everything you need to for this achievement or will you try to find it without help? I think the coin chests and key fairy parts would be the worst since it doesn't really give you a hint if you've found them all.

Vilurum Oct 9, 2013 @ 7:09pm 
If it's your first playthrough, you'll get an achievement when you've found the last key fairy point, ditto with the last coin chest (which, granted, will be so late that you can just as easily look for the character in the ending).

If it's a later playthrough and you'd previously gotten those achievements, then the key fairy points will probably be something you can remember. Or at least, you'll have to hit them all up to get a full inventory anyway (to get lamulana, randc, spaulder, and fairy clothes), and "full inventory" is easy to check.

Coin chests are likely to be trickier without a "you got them all" achievement to help, particularly given the last coin chest.
Adelion Oct 10, 2013 @ 4:54am 
Well I think most people won't do a perfect 100 % 10 hours or less run on their first playthrough so basically you have normally no or not all achievements to check if you found everything. Well I will wait atleast with my try although the error margin is quite big.
I will first complete Hell Temple and then maybe I will try Hell Temple without the Fairy Cloths but on normal (which should be basically the same as playing on hard with fairy cloths) so I have to restart. Could use that run to memorize puzzles again.

Well if there are people reading this another question before I go there: Do I have to do Hell Temple in one go? Or better formulated: Can I do like half the temple then go out and save and get back to my previous position without doing some of the things I have already done? Is there a save point in there and are there specific moments where a break might considered more senseful?
GeminiSaint Oct 10, 2013 @ 5:18am 
Hell Temple progress can be saved, and there are a couple shortcuts along the way, so you can take breaks. It doesn't have its own save tablet, though, so you'll have to save elsewhere.
Vilurum Oct 10, 2013 @ 8:25am 
There are shortcuts at (approximately) the 1/3 and 2/3 points. That said, most of the particularly obnoxious stuff in Hell Temple is after the 2/3 point.

Also, solved rooms stay solved provided you don't die, so for any room where doing it the *first* time is a pain but getting through it afterward is easy (say, hitting a bunch of weights, but the exit is easily accessible), it's no problem just to stroll right through again.

However, for rooms where simply getting from entrance to exit is tricky...

Finally, Hell Temple is actually quite generous with experience-giving enemies, particularly if you fall into Land of Hell a lot. Leaving and saving occasionally is still recommended, of course. While it's sometimes a deadly place, it's more often a super frustrating place that forces you to repeat rooms over and over when you screw up some platforming.
m9 Oct 10, 2013 @ 8:42am 
I hope you use a guide so you don't waste your "time" considering how many missables there are.

Also, Adelion,
I personally suggest just doing Hell Temple /once/. It's not going to be fun (maybe it could be for you) to do it again. It's really not that /much/ harder except for a mini-boss and one room which is.. a bit annoying already.

Traysandor Oct 10, 2013 @ 5:08pm 
Originally posted by m9:
I hope you use a guide so you don't waste your "time" considering how many missables there are.

Also, Adelion,
I personally suggest just doing Hell Temple /once/. It's not going to be fun (maybe it could be for you) to do it again. It's really not that /much/ harder except for a mini-boss and one room which is.. a bit annoying already.

Although if you want all of the Hell Temple achievements, you will probably have to beat Hell Temple at least twice (once on Normal, once on Hard Mode). Three times if you don't realize that one run through has to be done without the Fairy Clothes. *cough Normal mode cough*

Technically, it can be done only once on Hard Mode without Fairy Clothes, but good luck on that one. Though IMO, Hard Mode Hell Temple isn;t really that much harder than normal Hell Temple.
Vilurum Oct 10, 2013 @ 5:47pm 
Hell Temple is less about *killing* you (though it certainly has its deadly moments) and more about *frustrating* you by making you fall and redo stuff over and over with fussy platforming elements and backtracking through the same rooms repeatedly.

If you don't enjoy it in its own right (if you do, just go ahead and do it as many times as you like), but still want all the achievements even to the point of masochism, it'd probably be best to suffer through it *once*, on Hard Mode and without Fairy Clothes.

For the sake of ending variation achievements, be sure to keep a backup save right after that, *before* reporting to Mulbruk. It'd be a shame to have to redo everything because you locked yourself out of the "Playful But Lonely" achievement.
Dentorhedge_of_the_Victorious_Mu Oct 10, 2013 @ 6:26pm 
The fun is in watching yourself go insane!! Hee-hee-hee-hehehehehe!
m9 Oct 10, 2013 @ 10:51pm 
I thought you would only have to beat Hell Temple once if you do everything right (Hard Mode, no Vest which you can get after you finish for all items, and other things I probably can't remember)

Also if you want the Curry Achievement, do it before finishing Hell Temple or make a separate save before you do it unless you have it. I guess you have it, heh
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