La-Mulana > General Discussion > Topic Details
doopliss Sep 26, 2013 @ 9:05pm
Sequence Breaking
Seeing as most Metroidvania's have sequence breaks of some variation, La-mulana being unique as it has little to no sequence.

But with the little sequence, I have found some ways to break it.


What are some sequence breaks that you guys have found?

I found:
Gate of Time > Shrine of the Mother back entrance before beating Viy

Same as above except: Shrine of the Mother > Graveyard of the Giants > Defeat Bomb guardian sub-boss > Blow up wall that leads to where you usually enter GotG first > Go through GotG and Tower of Ruin before beating Sakit

There's another Sequence Break that was removed in the latest patch, where you could access the last whip upgrade before talking to all of the wisemen.
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Traysandor Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:35am 
There's another one too, much more obvious.

Spoiler Alert for obvious reasons.

In the Gate of Illusion, in the room where normally you would have to go talk to the the guy that gives you the Pepper, then go fetch the Treasure which gives you the Anchor.

If you climb the ladder and find a way to damage yourself (such as using the Caltrops) your character will fall all the way down the water without ever having to do the sidequest

Do note however if you do this you will later get "stuck" in the Tower of the Goddess while completing the Eye of Truth Puzzle. It is however not gamebreaking, as the problem can easily be fixed by just using the Holy Grail to warp out, then you come back down to finish up the Eye of Truth puzzle..Or you can swim back to the top and knock out the wal that will shortcut you to the bottom of the Tower and climb back up.


Related Screenshot (also tagged as spoilers):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=181695767
Last edited by Traysandor; Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:42am
Future Shock Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:41am 
You mean Gate of Time -> Tower of the Godess right? I've been messing around with sequence breaking recently and tried to go as far as possible without defeating a guardian; I've read somewhere that you can damage boost to get the Future Development software but I'm not sure how to do it and couldn't find a video/detailed explanation.
Traysandor Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:47am 
I'm not aware of that personally. As one of the people who keeps an eye on anything new for use in a speedrun, we're looking for ways to help optimize the game further. Currently the Any% World Record is about 1 hour 41 minutes (in game timer), but we would like to see a sub 1:40 time. If you do find interesting things and shortcuts, please get screenshots or put it up on youtube! I know the developers fixed a lot of the sequence breaks (eaning that if you try going somewhere you're not supposed to be, you get dumped back out at the Surface).

Quinterfell Sep 27, 2013 @ 10:45am 
This is the best speedrun I've seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElN0zQlKIJI

If you have a link I would love to see the faster one you mentioned.
Vilurum Sep 27, 2013 @ 11:18am 
While it's not relevant to "speedrunning" so much as "doing stuff early", it's possible to unlock the Tower of the Goddess D5-D2 "elevator" without double-jump by grapple-jumping up D4 to reach D3, jumping down from D3 to D5, and repeating a bunch of times (I lost count, seemed like it was somewhere in the high teens).

(Basically the way that unlocks is that the game keeps a counter, which it increments by "number of screens consecutively fallen in that section minus 1". Getting the counter high enough unlocks the elevator. So as long as you can fall at least two screens at once, which you can with grapple-jump to get to D3, you can increment the counter and eventually unlock the elevator.)

This allows for climbing that tower without double-jump, without having to very carefully ride the Vimana platforms, making it a much less finicky process. It also allows for climbing it more than once without double-jump (or the aforementioned damage-boost-accessed mirai.exe to be able to warp to the top once you've gotten there once).

Regarding speedrunning tactics, I'm guessing the WR doesn't have this issue (haven't watched it in a while though) but one thing I've repeatedly noticed on Twitch is that during the endgame mantraspam section, the runner often (habitually since you do it so much in that part) warps back to Tower of the Goddess for the fifth mantra tablet at the base of the Tower of the Goddess, then has to fall all the way back down the tower to get it.

Instead, it's faster to just stroll right back out of Tower of Ruin, where they were previously (to use the fourth mantra and collect the medicine), which puts them at the bottom of the tower one screen away from the mantra.
Traysandor Sep 27, 2013 @ 12:06pm 
Originally posted by Quinterfell:
This is the best speedrun I've seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElN0zQlKIJI

If you have a link I would love to see the faster one you mentioned.

The guy currently working on the run by the name of HifddenDistance is currently in college and does not yet have the tools necessary to record the run. As such, until the run is submitted on Youtube or Speed Demos Archive, it is considered unofficial and a 'work in progress.'

Some things we've improved upon that are not featured in the video you linked are the cutting out of a few not technically necessary puzzles [like the light platform puzzle in the Temple of the Sun, knocking out the Giant's Eye in the Graveyard of the Giants]. The biggest time savings however aside from better execution come from the Guardian fights. The trolliest ones tend to be 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8. 2 and 4 for bad attack patterns, 5 is Viy... yeah screw him, and we've developed strategies for Baphomet and Tiamat. Specifically, Baphomet Second form gets Pistol and Flail Whipped, and Tiamat ,there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Os28r5WEIN8

the other main helper is that the game is played with an earlier version of La-Mulana where the Flail Whip Glitch can still be done (it was fixed in version 1.4 IIRC). You can still do a good speedrun of La-Mulana even without that glitch though (refer to my Steam Speedrunning guide for more details)

If you want you can join the La-Mulana discussion over at https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/lamulana_678.html (direct link to the current discussion page. Note that the thread also includes the original version so keep that in mind.)
Last edited by Traysandor; Sep 27, 2013 @ 12:17pm
Hidden Distance Oct 10, 2013 @ 10:35pm 
Originally posted by Quinterfell:
If you have a link I would love to see the faster one you mentioned.

Hi Quinterfell; I recently started streaming, and my heretofore unofficial WR is now official (although a better time then listed above).

Here's the VoD if you're interested in watching. I'll be streaming from that channel irregularly when I take breaks from my studies.

http://www.twitch.tv/hiddendistance/c/3060517
Quinterfell Oct 11, 2013 @ 2:43pm 
Nicely done!
Vilurum Oct 11, 2013 @ 5:30pm 
Very nice run. As you noted throughout, it was a very schizophrenic run (with some good splits and some poor ones, constantly wobbling back and forth between a net gain and net loss of time), so I bet if you keep at it you can shave off an appreciable amount of time by virtue of consistency.

... My fastest run is like twice that length. I'm jealous of you speedrunners' skills. :)
Hidden Distance Oct 11, 2013 @ 8:48pm 
Thanks!
Yeah, I definitely plan on continuing to work on it; or at least have a comparable run that doesn't have so many glaring flaws throughout. I think my next tentative goal would be sub 2 hours real time, and going by some of the improvements that would be possible on those splits, I think it's somewhat realistic.
doopliss Oct 11, 2013 @ 9:26pm 
Speaking of Speedruns, has anyone managed to get the 100% ending?
Hidden Distance Oct 11, 2013 @ 11:37pm 
I have not seen any currently existing speedruns of the La-Mulana Remake going for 100%, though the manner in which you said "100% ending" makes me suspect you mean on hard mode with all the characters including hell temple. Not that I've seen speedruns of *that* either.

I'm not personally inclined to the 100% category on the basis that it would require some degree of grinding for money to buy all of the extra items and software - that stuff is expensive. Also you would need some okay fairy-luck in order to get at least one key fairy needed for the secret shop in which you buy the software which can then guarantee additional key fairies; sometimes that can take quite a while, and would probably be boring for the runner (or those watching).

As for a speedrun that includes hell temple? To Hell with that. If someone desperately wanted to see me suffer I might be persuaded to stream a run of that by itself, though I probably wouldn't bother timing it as I'd never want to do it again. It's incredibly unfeasible in a single segment run. Imagine playing through the whole game in one sitting, getting every piece of software, weapon, & item, suffering through all of hell temple, only to have the bloody game crash during the final phase of the fight with mother & having to start all over again. Not my cup of tea. Segmented would work better.. but segmented runs aren't my thing either.
Vilurum Oct 12, 2013 @ 3:43am 
I've seen Valkama on Twitch do a 100% ending characters speedrun (barring getting Mulbruk in swimsuit on account of that making the blue fairy not show up). I don't know if anyone else does. His ability to reliably get through those last few Hell Temple rooms is enviable, to say the least. Regrettably, I don't think he permanently saved any of those broadcasts. :/

The only Key Fairy he gets randomly is the one to unlock the Gate of Time, which I want to say is for early Flail Whip (I don't recall whether he has double-jump at the time for grabbing lamulana.exe while he's at it). Although he later goes CoE -> GoT -> TotG to reach the Chamber of Birth entrance there, which may well be faster than going TotG -> walkwalkswimwalk -> CoB. The rest he can farm up.

Going for all the coin chests for 100% ending (in addition, of course, to the various coin pots along the way) takes care of his money troubles until near the end of the game, so he only has one coin grinding session, at a point where he has both Bracelet and the ability to get a coin fairy on demand. And this may be avoidable by changing some of the boss strats to be less pistol-heavy (there are a few shopping trips to the Temple of Moonlight shop where you get 3 packs of ammo for 400 coins). Then again, this *is* hard mode, for that one ending character.

One thing I'll point out is that you do *not* need to get a key fairy to easily get more key fairies. Nor coin fairies. (Nor weapon fairies but to hell with them.)

Key: miracle + mekuri
Coin: miracle + capstar
Weapon: miracle + bounce

You get miracle by buying in Tower of the Goddess, in a shop that requires Lamp of Time to unlock, so that's only locked behind having Lamp of Time, enough coins to buy it, and a convenient opportunity to go to that area. The Lamp of Time is the main delaying point there.

You get mekuri from that spot near the waterfalls on the Surface. You can buy capstar in the Inferno Cavern. You get bounce from the sub-weapon chest in the Shrine of the Mother. None of these things require key fairies, and the first two can be obtained quite early if you like (and the third is useless so whatever).
Last edited by Vilurum; Oct 12, 2013 @ 3:47am
Hidden Distance Oct 12, 2013 @ 9:26am 
Wow, shows how long its been since I actually went to that shop & got the miracle.exe software.
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Date Posted: Sep 26, 2013 @ 9:05pm
Posts: 14