La-Mulana > General Discussion > Topic Details
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:53am
Mantra Logic [HEAVY ENDGAME SPOILERS]
In the endgame mantra quests, you must drive the wedges from the dark world equivalents of the light room boss rooms, using the compasses as a guide. I've managed to rationalize five of the dungeons with that logic (http://i.imgur.com/CoWAaYi.jpg) but three dungeons elude me and I was wondering if anyone can confirm/deny/correct my logic

Temple of Inferno/Tower of Ruin
-Seems like the way to make this work is to flip Ruin's map horizontally then rotate it 90 degrees counter clockwise. Is there an easier rationale to this?

Chamber of Extinction/Birth
-This one only makes sense if you connect the two Z segments of Extinction, but then the maps make no sense.

Mausoleum/Graveyard of Giants
-Completely lost on this one. Only thing that I can rationalize is that one tablet in Mausoleum referrs to Abuto and the wedge in Graveyard is pretty much on that.

Any response or help would be appreciated. I'm trying to make a video series explaining the logic and lore of this game but these three mantra puzzles crushed my logic outright.

I've heard about making the levels a 4x5 square but it feels really ham-handed still.
Last edited by Highwang; Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:55am
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Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 8:17am 
You're doing it all wrong, your putting logic into this from what your eyes see. Read page 19 of the manual, it explains how the ruin layout works. (Also you're a little to late on that video series idea, I already made one beforehand)
Last edited by Sicris; Jun 26, 2013 @ 8:22am
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 11:46am 
That helps to justify Extinction and Inferno somewhat, but Giants are still a puzzle to unfold.

Mausoleum's compass/boss has a four floor vertical distance between them while the Graveyard has a three floor vertical gap. If you use the 4x5 map method then the only means to make sense of it all would be to loop the bottom two floors of Mausoleum to the top, or loop the top floor of Graveyard to the bottom. Neither of these methods gel with the room-wrap theory in the manual either, nor are there any in-game indicators alluding to what rooms wrap where.

Extinction makes sense with the room-wrap theory *if* the Z block containing the boss room connects to the left side of the compass Z block, but again there's little in-game clues to this and just basing it on the manual's idea and mashing the rooms together would cause a conflict.

Inferno Cavern makes sense if you wrap Viy's room to the top. However the horizontal room-wrap theory doesn't work with this place either; rather, shifting the rooms into a 4x5 map position makes far more sense.

Really, the game's manual is very misleading due to a poor translation. A visual indicator of what the 4x5 rooms for the Giants area would help to make more sense of things but for now it's very nonsensical. That or a general purpose area of what axis I'm supposed to "wrap the map around."

Finally, your vids just show what to do without any basis of explanation or supplimentary information. What I strive to do is debunk any questions of "how the ♥♥♥♥ was I supposed to know that" along with provide some complimentary lore info on each area's mythology.
Dentorhedge_of_the_Victorious_Mu Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:41pm 
It definelety matches, I just checked by taking the maps and putting the rooms in their proper places.
Dentorhedge_of_the_Victorious_Mu Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:44pm 
If you want more of a sight of how this works, then look at the Guidance Gate. The skeleton's escape route and the ladder off of the top of the invisible bridge shouldn't work if you look at the map, but if the ruins really are a square, it does.
Dentorhedge_of_the_Victorious_Mu Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:48pm 
Also, there is a glitch in the inferno cavern where the place to put the mantra is off by one room, and ends up in the dancing tempting spirit's room instead of the seductive tempting spirit's room where it should be. This glitch exists on the Wii version, but I would think they've fixed it by now.
Dentorhedge_of_the_Victorious_Mu Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:51pm 
Abuto's corps is the one with the golden pots all around it. (You can scan his belt) The graveyard works just like the rest of the ruins.
Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 4:52pm 
Originally posted by Wangry:
Finally, your vids just show what to do without any basis of explanation or supplimentary information. What I strive to do is debunk any questions of "how the ♥♥♥♥ was I supposed to know that" along with provide some complimentary lore info on each area's mythology.

I just meant that as a little bit of lite nonsensical humor is all. Though I wouldn't say they are baseless; I never solve a puzzle until I read the appropriate tablet for them first with I think one exception.
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 5:02pm 
So after playing with the Giants maps I come up with something like this: http://i.imgur.com/eeBlu1Q.jpg

It seems like it can work if I cycle the floors one level up, but it still feels off imo.

Originally posted by Sicris:
I just meant that as a little bit of lite nonsensical humor is all. Though I wouldn't say they are baseless; I never solve a puzzle until I read the appropriate tablet for them first with I think one exception.

Oh I understand that, but without verbal or textual reminders of certain info it's not likely that the viewer has retained info through the video let alone across video parts.
Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 6:56pm 
Originally posted by Wangry:
So after playing with the Giants maps I come up with something like this: http://i.imgur.com/eeBlu1Q.jpg

It seems like it can work if I cycle the floors one level up, but it still feels off imo.


Nah, you're wraping the rooms around each other when they don't need to be. For Graveyard of the Giants, Row 1 and 2 leave them where they are. The one room in row 6 wrap it around to row 1 in slot A-1 As for rows 3-5 just shift the entire row the left until they align. You should only wrap the rooms around if it's needed. In this case the only room you should wrap around is the one in row 6, to the top of the map, no other room should be wrapped around.

If you do that then from the compass to the room where the seal is it'll be 3 down one left, just like with mausolium of giants if you lined it up the same way.
Last edited by Sicris; Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:17pm
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:03pm 
Well that fixes the horizontal problem, but there's still a vertical discrepency between the Giants dungeons. Does one of them need to be shifted vertically?
Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:16pm 
Originally posted by Wangry:
Well that fixes the horizontal problem, but there's still a vertical discrepency between the Giants dungeons. Does one of them need to be shifted vertically?


Opps My bad I meant to say move D-6 to A-1. That should align it right.

It should look like this (Had to use MS paint so looks pretty bad but you should still be able to make the rooms out.) http://i.imgur.com/4zNs1Aj.jpg

Both of those are 3 down and 1 left; or if you rather 2 up and 1 left.
Last edited by Sicris; Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:24pm
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:27pm 
Alright, so the explanation is by aligning the compasses in this map, you get a loop effect causing the wedge in Graveyard to be on the top floor right? Cause that's what it's seeming like at the moment.
Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:28pm 
Originally posted by Wangry:

Oh I understand that, but without verbal or textual reminders of certain info it's not likely that the viewer has retained info through the video let alone across video parts.

I tried doing that for the original version, proved to be way to much of a hastle.
Sicris Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:37pm 
Originally posted by Wangry:
Alright, so the explanation is by aligning the compasses in this map, you get a loop effect causing the wedge in Graveyard to be on the top floor right? Cause that's what it's seeming like at the moment.

I edited the post earlier, i made a mistake with one of the room placement, look at the map. The compass only act as a guide for how to count the rooms, you don't line them up on the map itself.

http://i.imgur.com/4zNs1Aj.jpg

From the compass room to sakit's room it's 3 rooms down and 1 room left; or 2 rooms up and 1 room left; or 3 rooms right 2 rooms up; or 3 down and 3 right; whatever direction you can think of .

From the Compass to the seal in Graveyard of Giants it's also 3 rooms down and 1 room left; or 2 rooms up and 1 room left, etc, etc.

Point is it's identical, it'll always take you to the same room no matter what path you pick. All maps in La-Mulana that are part of the mantra puzzle work like this.
Last edited by Sicris; Jun 26, 2013 @ 8:59pm
Highwang Jun 26, 2013 @ 7:41pm 
Alright, that should help. Seems like Giants is the only map that does this though, since the Chambers and Inferno areas all mesh perfectly fine in the world-wrap theory.

Also video editing isn't so hard. Windows Moviemaker has easy access to captions and video clipping, while Adobe Premier offers better quality and functionality. Just need to keep doing vids to get a handle on it.
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Date Posted: Jun 26, 2013 @ 3:53am
Posts: 16