Simburgur  [developer] May 19, 2013 @ 1:25am
Alpha vs Beta, Pricing, etc (Read before opening a new thread)
Hey folks,

Thought I'd post some information and throughts up regarding some concerns people are having in regards to pricing & the state of the game. Please keep all discussion relating to these topics in this thread so we can use the forum to actually gather feedback. Any new threads discussing these topics will be closed and redirected to this thread.


Alpha vs Beta vs Bedrock Beta
This is one place we probably did misstep, but renaming everything now would only cause further confusion in the short-term (and would mean we would need to rename again in a few months).

It is true that the current build is more akin to a pre-alpha if you are going by traditional waterfall development definitions, but that’s not how this game is being made, and not how we have defined ‘Bedrock Beta’ over the past several months every single time it has been mentioned (including at the top of the Steam page and in the Bedrock Beta video).

For those that are not aware of our plans for the Bedrock Beta: Take the first word very literally. This is the very bedrock of the game and we want you guys to be part of development from a very early stage.


Why am I paying so much for an alpha/beta?
You aren’t. You are pre-ordering the full game (at a discount, no less) and being given the option to play it early. Don’t want to play it early? You don’t have to. It really is that simple.

We could have waited another 1-2 months before making this available, and the only thing that would have changed is you missing out on seeing the early stages of development and us missing out on valuable feedback.


But the price is still too high!
Kickstarter backers got the game at the price that many of you seem to be asking for, and a discount is what they get for supporting us at that early stage. Under no circumstances will we be offering the full game at less than what our Kickstarter backers paid as that would be plain-and-simple unfair to our early supporters.


Thanks for reading, and we would really like to continue the dialogue regarding these topics, just keep it in this thread! ;)
Last edited by AvatarIII; Sep 20, 2013 @ 5:01am
Showing 1-15 of 115 comments
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Haunted208 May 19, 2013 @ 2:12am 
I don't mind this at all tbh

I get to see a game in early development and influence it's future development

win mother♥♥♥♥in win
Hellgate May 19, 2013 @ 3:08am 
Keep the good work guys ! I have been waiting for a proper DK style for a long time!
Scholar May 19, 2013 @ 3:38am 
just got it! Damn im so sad i didnt knew about this project earlier. Since im a huge fan of dungeon keeper i just instantly bought it :) Gonna check the game in a big.. looks amazing thou :) ! Keep it up peeps!
Honzo May 19, 2013 @ 5:04am 
OP on the flame-fest thread here. Thank you for this post, all I was asking was for either a demo or lowered price (so I could buy the early access to test it myself). Now that I know the current state of the development from your words and not the fans it's easy to understand why there is no public demo, and also the reason for the price.

Thanks for your time! I hope you can realease something to the public soon.

[黒の騎士団] Arara! ✜ May 19, 2013 @ 5:33am 
Thumbs up for this post! Cleared any and all uncertainties that I had before deciding to buy.
Lasharus, Archmage May 19, 2013 @ 7:45am 
Speaking as someone who was around when this was going to be the fan-made Dungeon Keeper III but then lost track of it, I was astonished to see this appear on Steam. And very happily surprised.

I must say though, this post was very informative, even though I'd already bought the deluxe edition. I AM an impulse buyer, all said and done. :P

I'm delighted to be able to see the game as it develops from its very rough edges into a full-blown game we can all enjoy playing.
renestia May 19, 2013 @ 8:00am 
I've been waiting for Dungeon Keepers 3 for... well last time I played Dungeon keepers 2 was like...12 year... maybe 14 years. And now this falls on my lap? I'm not gunna complain about the price.

Thank you Bedrock!
Bielbo May 19, 2013 @ 8:52am 
Simburgur I have been fighting the corner for you guys for days now and I know It'll be worth it. I bought the game already and don't have any issues with the way your doing things. I just hope that all those people who do have trouble will actually read your post and see its value.

Honesty is what you are giving all of us and your not being a corporate liar like anyone from EA usually does. Also take my advice... If approached by EA turn them down with any offer they give no matter how amazing it is. They will buy you and shut you down once it has its way with you!
Merry Goatmas May 19, 2013 @ 11:35am 
I completely expected this to be little more than a tech demo when I bought it as soon as it was available on Steam, and that's fine. Essentially a preorder that I get to see progress along the way - great! I'm completely happy with this medium and honestly wish more games would do it.

But I'm weird like that. I don't think an early access at such a basic level will do you guys any favors in the long run. With things being so gradual, you won't get a big hype spike out of it; that's clutch marketing.
Last edited by Merry Goatmas; May 19, 2013 @ 11:35am
Ax.Kaiser May 19, 2013 @ 11:54am 
I'm with everyone else. i am very happy to back this project all the way as I love dungeon keeper. i bought this game instantly when i saw it and will be continuing to support this game every step of the way until the full release and the patches after.
Squealin' Bernie Rubber May 19, 2013 @ 3:44pm 
sorry - but this is a joke. "bedrock beta" ..............
Noctys May 19, 2013 @ 4:07pm 
Awesome, thank you for clearing that up. If you read through one of the posts that you closed (not complaining about that) you may remember I was a strong oppent to the price tag being to high for what the game (IMHO) looks like it will be ending up at in it's final form... And that if it is to achive the value of what you are asking it will take a significant amount of time to develope. I also stated that I REALLY want this game to be worth the price you are asking... So I am wondering:

1) What is you development time line/goal -- not looking for a date or anything... Just something like "We expect to be done by the end of the year" ... or "Withing a year or two"... Or "It could be awhile, don't expect anything near release quality until 2020."

2) One of the things that sets a value point for myself (and others) is the quality of the Sound and Graphics -- The sound 'sounds' good -- but the graphics semm a little dated -- like from 10 years ago.... Are there plans for updating the graphics to something more 2010+?

3) What are the plans for Single Player?

4) Are you going to release a Demo for those of us that want to see what the game is like before we put our money on the line? If so when can we expect something like that (same thing as #1 for timeframes)?

Thanks!

Enjou May 19, 2013 @ 4:24pm 
Originally posted by Noctys:
1) What is you development time line/goal -- not looking for a date or anything... Just something like "We expect to be done by the end of the year" ... or "Withing a year or two"... Or "It could be awhile, don't expect anything near release quality until 2020."

The current plan is to be done with the base game (campaign and multiplayer) by the end of the year.

2) One of the things that sets a value point for myself (and others) is the quality of the Sound and Graphics -- The sound 'sounds' good -- but the graphics semm a little dated -- like from 10 years ago.... Are there plans for updating the graphics to something more 2010+?

Keep in mind that this is an indie title. You won't get AAA graphics. However, current art assets are not the final ones and you can expect them to be improved by the time the base game is complete.

3) What are the plans for Single Player?

There will be a campaign that should be the length of the DK and DK2 campaigns at minimum. There may be fewer levels, but levels will be larger and take longer to complete to accomadate.

4) Are you going to release a Demo for those of us that want to see what the game is like before we put our money on the line? If so when can we expect something like that (same thing as #1 for timeframes)?

The devs may make one closer to release when more functionality is implemented, but nothing is set right now. You'll inevitably be able to keep track of the game's status through various youtube channels though.
Simburgur  [developer] May 19, 2013 @ 4:25pm 
Originally posted by Noctys:
Awesome, thank you for clearing that up. If you read through one of the posts that you closed (not complaining about that) you may remember I was a strong oppent to the price tag being to high for what the game (IMHO) looks like it will be ending up at in it's final form... And that if it is to achive the value of what you are asking it will take a significant amount of time to develope. I also stated that I REALLY want this game to be worth the price you are asking... So I am wondering:

1) What is you development time line/goal -- not looking for a date or anything... Just something like "We expect to be done by the end of the year" ... or "Withing a year or two"... Or "It could be awhile, don't expect anything near release quality until 2020."

2) One of the things that sets a value point for myself (and others) is the quality of the Sound and Graphics -- The sound 'sounds' good -- but the graphics semm a little dated -- like from 10 years ago.... Are there plans for updating the graphics to something more 2010+?

3) What are the plans for Single Player?

4) Are you going to release a Demo for those of us that want to see what the game is like before we put our money on the line? If so when can we expect something like that (same thing as #1 for timeframes)?

Thanks!

1) Long answer: Honestly, we don't quite know at this point. We were going to be saying 'around the end of this year', but Steam sales has been higher than expected and as such we may take more time to make it better before saying 'It's done' and beginning work on post-release content. Either way, you guys are going to have access to everything (apart from the main campaign - that isn't going public until release) whenever it's ready... that's the beauty of Early Access.

Short answer: When it's ready.

2) Graphics have a long way to go. The game isn't even rendering bump maps yet. We don't have proper lighting, fx, shaders or animation working either. The main issues we have with audio are code-related - if you go look at some of our previous news posts there are some 'audio showcases' which display what the end product will eventually sound like.

3) Epic main story campaign. Mini-campaign released during the beta to test campaign stuff. Additional mini-campaigns post-release as DLC that explore different style of gameplay (possibly co-op, for example).

4) We are going to be giving away temporary beta-only keys at some point, but most likely when the game is a bit more complete - my guess would be shortly after we add multiplayer.
KazyJumps May 19, 2013 @ 4:37pm 
1) they've said they expect to get to release this year, the end of this year. Bear in mind that they actually have more assets ready than are in the current build (we've seen a bunch of them in the weekly Wednesday updates that kickstarter backers got), in it's current state the build is designed for testing and bugfixing not implementation.

2) Normal maps are not currently implemented, along with I think a couple of other graphical technologies that will be in the final build. There's a reason you don't normally see screenshots from these kinds of early builds (they're generally from later builds, or from within the 3d modelling programs used to make the models). I think the gnarling is one of the units that currently suffers most from the lack of normal maps. His face when you are up close.....

3) A prelude campaign that will be used for testing campaign features during the beta (so a short one), the main campaign which will only be available on release, possibly a coop campaign (I don't remember if that stretch goal was met so that may come later in the form of dlc) and I also remember something about a vs campign (so player vs player, with which player wins deciding story progression) although I think that may have been either 'we might do this' or 'we might put in the necessary technology to do this if modders want it'.

4) Pretty sure Simburgur mentioned making a demo, but not till much later in development (so yeah, near release)
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