oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 9:44am
Why the Hetero-normativity?
Why was this game created to only cater to heterosexual connections? It takes place in a ficitonal future where we have space flight, and virtual reality. Yet, still, there's no option for men to speak to men, or women to women?

Not only that - but it puts forward that in deep space, men would rather be alone than talk to someone of the same sex. This suggests the only reason for talking is somehow sexual in nature.

From an analysis of the game, this seems insulting - but from a gameplay level it hurts the game as well, for there are people waiting in the cafe to talk, but perhaps never communicating because everyone chose the same sexed avatar.

An otherwise interesting experience is hindered, gameplay wise, by short sighted heteronormative thoughts, that also work to show a bigotted bias in the developer.

Edit: This is really intersting. Having opened up a few instances of the game, I have connected to myself in the Cafe / Chess Board area. Even though both of my instances were "females" they connected to each other (except each saw the other as a male.) So - even though the game touts that it's a Hetero-Experience, you really have no idea what gender you are talking to.

Which removes any complaint about Game Play / connections being hampered. Because, clearly they are not. That just means, even though the players could be two men talking to one another, the game world is focing a Male / Female perspective onto the player (even if that's not the case, in real life.)
Last edited by oneyeartrip; Mar 24, 2013 @ 3:16pm
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KAMIzaum Mar 24, 2013 @ 11:18am 
well, I do not know if heteronormativity was something intentional or not on the part of the developers, but I agree that it would be more interesting to have a greater freedom about it.
oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 11:24am 
on the official site, which sets the whole thing up as a space station experience, it makes mention that it's for heterosexual experiences only. It seemed to be pretty explicit.
[fug] cerebral lawlzy Mar 24, 2013 @ 2:26pm 
Oh come on, this is the most nitpicky thing I've ever read. It's a video game. Why do people feel the need to be offended because a video game doesn't do everything they want? "Oh, this game doesn't let you have same-sex conversations. I guess that means it doesn't care about homosexual gamers." Give it a rest and enjoy the damn game; FRIG OFF if you feel the need to overanalyze a game. I mean, this is like hating Pokemon Gold and Silver because two same-sex Pokemon can't adopt their own egg. Stop being so damn autistic. All I have to say is this: if you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest.
oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 2:48pm 
FuG - you neither have, nor have you played, this "game" so I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on, however why it is a valid critique is:

A.) This "game" positions itself less as a game, and more as a piece of art. Which leaves it not only open to, but invites, critique. It presents a far future, where we are technologically advanced, but very specifially refuses to cater to homosexuals. This is stated explicitly which indicates that even in our far future, homosexuality is not accepted (in the realm of the game.) This is a huge bias being presented in this work of art.

B.) The lack of homosexual (if we are to assume that a basic convorsation must be linked to sex) communication hurts the gameplay, as it reduces the - already small - pool of other players to interact with online, crippling a huge part of the experience.

This is a "game" meant to be analized. There is little "game play" beyond trying to derive meaning from the limited experiences, and trying to understand the idea of communication, and relationships in a void - finding connection in a disconnected world.

I would encourage you to try the experience, and then comment on whether you think two male characcters should be able to communiate online (or two female characters, for that matter.) I would be interested in hearing why you feel the "hetero-communciation" makes a stronger experience, for gameplay - or narrative.
Big Taco Mar 24, 2013 @ 3:42pm 
Gay people can't have kids so how could there be any in the future?
Floyd! Mar 24, 2013 @ 3:47pm 
Because homosexuality isn't hereditary, maybe?
-
But this thread is interesting actually. That's one of of the first things I wondered. The fact you mentionned you don't know about who you're talking to, that person may be represented as a feminine or masculine avatar, but you never know about the "real" gender, just like you never see the man's head, the woman's eyes, or even the whole characters when you have to interact with the chessboard.
oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 4:28pm 
It goes beyond that though, even if a person CHOOSES a male avatar, it may be represented on your screen as a female, in the cafe - because when the game matches players together, it doesn't take their sex selection into account. Two people who chose male can end up talking to one another, except they'll be seen (and voiced) as female in the perception of the other.
DragonOfTime Mar 24, 2013 @ 4:28pm 
First off, I would like to point out that there is not necessarily a link between the in-universe authorities and the developers. Just because the gameplay doesn't allow same-sex encounters, it doesn't mean that the developers themselves are against it in the real world.
It is perhaps, meant to show a bigoted future, where the corporation that makes this communication possible, has a political agenda.
It is also possible that it is simply because your pre-defined character, who you have chosen to play, has been predefined to be heterosexual. If you read a book, you can't choose if the lead character is homosexual or not, and you usually don't complain about it, because that's just the story that is told.
Not being able to play a homosexual character is not really a problem, because sometimes, some traits are pre-defined. Just like you can't choose to be a pacifist who refuses to carry a weapon when playing "Call of Duty", simply because the character is predefined to be a soldier. This is not a problem, because this is the vision for this game.
Just because the player character in a game is predefined to be one thing, it does not mean that the game, nor the creators of the game, are bigoted. They have just made a choice, conciously or unconciously, to make the player character what it is.
oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 4:32pm 
I agree with your first point, however the game makes no effort to show that it's showing a bigotted future. It simply presents the experience as normal.

Your second point, on the chracter simply being hetero-sexual doesn't hold up, because of the official site: http://tale-of-tales.com/bientotlete/

There it states, "* T. Beach and U. Bridge are heterosexual programs. Users stationed in the Desbaresdes belt and current or former citizens of the Chauvin system are advised to use with caution. Furthermore, the U. Bridge grid is limited to a maximum of two simultaneous users. Users with Stretter condition are recommended to consult their physicians before engaging. S. Thala LLC rejects all responsibility for inappropriate use."

The character may be heterosexual, however the homosexual exclusion still exists.

It's also interesting that this software links the simple act of communicating with random phrases to sex.

DragonOfTime Mar 24, 2013 @ 4:47pm 
Originally posted by oneyeartrip:
I agree with your first point, however the game makes no effort to show that it's showing a bigotted future. It simply presents the experience as normal.

Your second point, on the chracter simply being hetero-sexual doesn't hold up, because of the official site: http://tale-of-tales.com/bientotlete/

There it states, "* T. Beach and U. Bridge are heterosexual programs. Users stationed in the Desbaresdes belt and current or former citizens of the Chauvin system are advised to use with caution. Furthermore, the U. Bridge grid is limited to a maximum of two simultaneous users. Users with Stretter condition are recommended to consult their physicians before engaging. S. Thala LLC rejects all responsibility for inappropriate use."

The character may be heterosexual, however the homosexual exclusion still exists.

It's also interesting that this software links the simple act of communicating with random phrases to sex.
I disagree with you here. The homosexual exclusion is very clearly an in-world decision, as T. Beach and U. Bride are the in-world names for the software and this is all stated in an in-world way. The way this is shown, it is clear that the hetero-normativity is a conscious in-world choice. The actual real-world developers have chosen that the in-world developers have chosen to make the software hetero only. This shows the opinion of the in-world fictional developers, and it does show future bigotry.
And of course it makes no effort to overtly state that the future world is bigoted. It is one of those subtle things you notice by looking closer at the whole thing. Just like a movie taking place in the 40's. It may not overtly say "hey, this is a movie about repression of women". It may not even be one of the central themes of the movie, but if the movie is made realistically, it this repression of women shows when you look at it closer.
oneyeartrip Mar 24, 2013 @ 4:53pm 
I agree with everything except: "This shows the opinion of the in-world fictional developers, and it does show future bigotry"

Many people would view the exclusion of homosexuals as bigotry (myself included), however there are a great many who see that as a normalized state.

Nothing in my reading of this media text has led me to believe that the developers, or in world characters, view the exclusion of homosexuals as a negative thing.

This led to my interpritation of the text.
DragonOfTime Mar 24, 2013 @ 5:04pm 
I partly agree with you here. The exclusion of homosexuals from the type of software that you use in-game is indeed bigotry (at least in my opinion, and as far as I understood it, yours too). I also agree that it does not seem that the in-world developers view this discrimination based on sexuality as a negative thing, so the in-world developers are bigoted, which would be a bad thing if they were real people.
However, looking at the text on the website, it is clearly meant to present everything from the viewpoint of the in-world developers. This means that we have no idea what the actual real-world developers think, and therefore, we cannot really jump to any conclusion. Just because you write a realistic 40's novel, it doesn't mean that you share the 40's mindset. And just because you write an interactive story where the predefined player character is heterosexual, it doesn't mean that you are bigoted. It just means that the character you have written a story about isn't homosexual.
jounk33 Mar 25, 2013 @ 12:46pm 
Is it modable ? If so, than someone can mod the woman to a male striper.
If not...who cares.
jounk33 Mar 26, 2013 @ 5:32am 
He I bought the game yesterday, for 2,50, and there is no need to be disapointed if you are gay, because this game is gay enough. But I like it. Especialy because it is all in french.
Ellerycunt Apr 10, 2013 @ 10:14am 
Woah, what's up with the rampage of deleting comments here? Haha, seriously I was just asking a simple question on whether I understood the op correct or not. Is someone here really that sensitive...?
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