KrysisMode Jan 25, 2013 @ 12:54am
Oh my I was not expecting THIS at all. Beta advice for the devs.
I just finished my first taste of the game and I have to admit this is just something else all right. I get games change with each sequel but the general idea is to build up and improve on them. This just seems...well like it should of been the other way around or something like this was the first game quality wise. Betas beta and all but still, the core mechanics are such a shift it barely feels like a sequel at all and more like a reboot of somekind.

FIrst off, those controls my lordy. Okay I can deal with that, I miss my finetuned aim (Those bats and their tiny hitboxes oh how I hate thee for that devs) and a lack of more percise control in character movement in a game that demands it is kinda annoying. no speed control makes for hilarity and even just a simple lock place mode for 8way firing without running into the enemy would help. The jumping and enviroment do NOT mix well at all, infact its downright dangerous sometimes hitting your head on a obnoxiously placed overhang and falling into a nasty trap pit of spikes or other horrible things, or just misjudging the terrain and hitting your face on a wall you didn't know existed. I know its a beta but you guys really need to fine tune some of this, hell I'd take an auto targetting that locks onto enemies for you with an option to toggle targets over this current setup. And some much more controlled movement speed/fluidity, that was the most jarring part of it going dead stop to full sprinting, fell off cliffs for ages until I started thinking retro like freaking megaman style retro. Felt like capcom took over sometimes I swear.

Second would be the tactical gamemode. Um...what? It wasn't friendly at all I'll say that much. It gives you the basics sure but... what? Sorry the game itself confuses me somewhat what with losing your followers being game over, especcially when you own one of the oblivion crystals. I'd understand it being hard as hell to progress without the help of the resistance but couldn't you I dunno... restart it somehow since your immortal and stuff? I dunno confusing plot is confusing and has more holes in it than swiss cheese. Also gives very little help in figuring out what to do right now. I haven't gotten too far into it so I can't comment completely on it but so far not so hot guys.

Third is the meat of the game, Adventure gamemode. Like it has been done to DEATH the controls are amazingly bad and need serious finetuning work devs. Also the spells and abilities I get seem ♥♥♥♥ poor no matter WHAT I take. I had a chance to play with the fire, ice, and nature elements. I can understand each of them wanting to be unique in playstyle but they really have issues in playablity. Fire alone had only two decent attacks, the primary bulletspammer and the limited use firering that would be three times more useful if it orginated from the player and shot outward to its current spawn point so far off it feels like its just for show. And light just dissapointed me, flare was easily the best attack next to the Area burst attack. the ammo special was pitiful quite honestly because if things get THAT close your dead anyway. Ice was potentially useful if the movement of the player didn't dictate the attack direcetion, so situational it's almost useless outside of moments you need to curve the shots. And natures freaking plant attacks oi... the only one I found useful was the same one that tried to kill me as I use it! All in all you guys kinda need to rework the abilites and combat. At the very least a bit more fluid aiming, even a slight autoaim for your fire direction would make it MUCH easier to fight. And honestly some of the enemies are plain obnoxious to deal with, freaking mosquietos and flying death eyes in particular were a right pain in the butt with their small hitbox and insane speed. none of my attacks could hit them unless I got lucky.

I know its the beta but for a reward it sure felt like punishment to play. I also preferred the original games ramping of difficulty by my own actions instead of some arbitrary timer mechanic that basically means the longer you want to enjoy the game, the harder its gonna be. I just personally hate that kind of gimmick, sure it makes a sense of pressure but wasn't this game about I don't know... something else? I had fun with the first game simply because it didn't force me to rush or feel like I had to in order to keep up. I could tackle it at my own pace and just derp around exploreing the entire damn continent if I wanted to instead of worrying about this jackwagon becoming impossible to kill even though he already IS unless I figure out how to...

TL;DR for the attention impaired: Betas wonky, needs much more work. please do devs?
Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
< >
=[RoS]=Justinpcgamer Feb 2, 2013 @ 1:55pm 
I agree with you on so many levels. I barely have just started playing the first Valley w/o Wind then I noticed that I had W/O Wind 2 and was like omg sweeeet! Installed played for a few minutes then just quit due to lack of interest and hatred of the ♥♥♥♥ty controlls.

For christs sake even Terraria Has Mousing Aiming!
bun Feb 3, 2013 @ 12:49am 
i am kind of interested in this game but waiting for a sale before getting it.
Hopefully a sale before the game launches so i can have both Vwow1 and 2.

As for mouse controls for accuracy aimming. since the dev emphasize on tactical battles,
I am sure they want pple to advance tactically instead of able to aim from far and still hit.
Makes the game harder and annoying for others, but then some players might like it.

just my opinion but than wat have i got to say, i dont own any of the games yet.
looking forward to buy it if there is a sale before launch!

pls make the game very hard dev!


Last edited by bun; Feb 3, 2013 @ 1:11am
tigersfan  [developer] Feb 3, 2013 @ 5:11am 
I don't know if there will be a sale or not before launch, but it shouldn't matter, the plan is to always offer both games together.

As for making the game very hard, don't worry, we have a wide range of difficulty levels. :)

To the OP: I'm sorry you're not liking the game. You touched on a lot of broad themes, and most of they have been responded to in other places, but I'll try to touch on them breifly here.

You mentioned Megaman, and to be honest, that's kind of the feel we were going for. We had games like Metroid more in mind when making it, but, Megaman was mentioned during development.

For the tactical gameplay. Well, one of the reasons you lose the game if you lose your survivors is because we wanted to have a strategy game where it was possible to actually lose. I won't speak for others, but, personally, I get annoyed when a game lets me limp along and still win, even after I played really poorly for hours. As for why you can't restart the resistance in terms of the storyline, well, your character was pretenting to work for the overlord for a long time, but most of the survivors don't know that, so most of them dislike you. You need other survivors who know you were a plant to get others to join your ranks.

As for the adventure mode, I appreciate your feedback. We're definitely still working on balance, and feedback like yours is valuable.
Setzway Feb 10, 2013 @ 9:01pm 
I agree with you OP on some points but disagree on others. What I disagree with is the "Megaman" aspect and the Tactical/survivor aspect.

You should get used to no "slow/walking" speed fairly early, besides it's not like you go super fast anyway, unless you get speed equipment.

As for the survivor/tactical element, I don't mind it at all. It was done well enough that it doesn't feel tacted on, yet it's still simple enough most people should be able to handle it. The only thing I hate about it is the 14 turn time limit. That really sucks, especially on the harder difficulties. I did 6 hours of Hero and Queen difficulty before I rage quit. It's extremely difficult to get things done before Overlord decides to show up and own everything.

Furthermore the difficulty is compounded by the apparent "RNG" effect on overworld layout and interior layouts. I started taking screens of how lame/impossible some of the buildings are. For example, it took me 7 turns purifying before I found my first robot factory to get a CHANCE at gettting the feat I needed to get stuff I need before Overlord shows up. That's half the time I have to get everything ready and I only have a quater of what "the minimum you need to win". Not to mention how many times I died to outright lame/cheap enemies and layouts. E.G. I used door to next area of building, only to have it be a small room whose exit is blocked by 2 destructible blocks. While a "Hungry Ghost" is right next to the door. On Hero difficulty Ghosts take off like 3 of my 4-5 hearts just by touching me once. Oh yeah and they take 2 ultimate attacks to kill, only they don't die. They just "phase" for about 5 seconds and are good as new! Oh and here's the best part, the building I was in was my first level up tower. So basically I can't do it because I'm not strong enough, but in order to get stronger I need to do it. Nice paradox isn't it. Had to waste another 3 turns finding another level up tower to try.

I totally agree with the controls, they aren't THAT bad. However being unable to shoot diagonally while jumping with a modest amount of precision is lame. Furthermore having a ton of hard hitting enemies have lame movesets/attacks makes it next to impossible to hit them. Not to mention how horrible most of the spells are, even at tier two they kinda blow hard. Granted there are times when I see them being useful but because of the "calibur" mechanic the enemy is able to negate your attacks and still hit you.

There's just so many things that are wrong in my opinion. I can see that it has potential and may turn out to be good. However I find it AVWW 2 is not at all like the previous one. I enjoyed being able to get the spells/loadouts I wanted and upgrading them. I enjoyed being able to have multiple equipment stored in my pack and being able to swap what I needed when I needed it. I liked how the game got harder when I got better at it. This is not the case with AVWW 2 in my opinion, I could go on with the stuff I find bad. As it stands now I wouldn't even recommend it to any of my friends, at least in it's present state. I think AVWW 2 needs a lot of work before I even consider playing again. At least the new tilesets and enemy skins are neat, as well as some of the hero art and skins.
tigersfan  [developer] Feb 11, 2013 @ 5:09am 
@setzway... wait, are you trying to get to the overlord in his keep and destroy him before he comes out in the strategy game? If so, that is supposed to be hard, in fact, it's not really supposed to be possible at all. It's intended that you will have to wait till after he starts walking around before you go and kill him.

Also, do you still have the save of that level-up tower you were in? I'd like to see that.
Setzway Feb 11, 2013 @ 2:31pm 
@tigersfan... Oh no, I meant when he leaves his tower and stomps across the tiles. If I was attacking him inside his tower then I would totally understand. What I meant was that I didn't have any of the "minimum" stuff required to kill him in the time he came out, or even a few turns later. Like I said, the layouts were horrendous in some of the buildings/caves I needed to go into in order to get the stuff I needed. That's what made it impossible for me, I needed double/triple jump yet there were no robot factories to hack/delve into in order to get them.

As for the save, no I don't have that save anymore. I lost all my survivors(well most of them) a few turns after Overlord came out. Being as how I was only level 5, due to not finding anymore level-up towers I got destroyed. I do have some screen shots of things/layouts I found really lame/one sided though. I actually do have the screenshot of the room in that level-up tower I was talking about. Though that was after I found a couple of other towers, I was able to do those and get the first mage class cache. I decided to try it again, I was only able to destroy the destructible blocks blocking the exit. There were some other notable instances, like a cave that I apparently needed double jump in order to proceed. After 10-15 minutes straight of trying to jump onto it I managed to do it.

Here's the screen of the level-up tower. Like I said it was my "first" one, since it was intially viewable on the overworld map and took 1 turn to unlock.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=126443386

I think I might again, generating a new world. Perhaps I was just unlucky and had poorly generated map/environments. I'll also try the strategic difficulty on Rook to see if it makes much of a difference as well. Also I think some of the "homing missile" spells need to be worked on a bit. Sometimes when you face the right side of the screen, since there is an enemy close to you, and fire...the shot goes off to the left, then circles around towards the enemy. If it was a once in a while occurence I wouldn't mind, however it did this frequently. Furthermore the cooldown for some of the spells seems off. What I mean is, say you fire off a spell that has a 1 second cooldown, you need to wait 1 whole second before you can fire any other spell. Even if the spell you are going to fire is a totally different one with a cooldown of 0.2 seconds. IMO the cooldowns should be independant for each spell, not global for all spells. I should be able to fire off a 1 sec cooldown spell and then be able to fire off/use a different spell. Then after that 1 sec expires be able to use that 1 second cd spell again.
Last edited by Setzway; Feb 11, 2013 @ 2:43pm
pepisolo Feb 14, 2013 @ 2:07pm 
"Furthermore the cooldown for some of the spells seems off. What I mean is, say you fire off a spell that has a 1 second cooldown, you need to wait 1 whole second before you can fire any other spell. Even if the spell you are going to fire is a totally different one with a cooldown of 0.2 seconds. IMO the cooldowns should be independant for each spell, not global for all spells. I should be able to fire off a 1 sec cooldown spell and then be able to fire off/use a different spell. Then after that 1 sec expires be able to use that 1 second cd spell again."

Just in case you don't know. Your suggestion was under discussion on the dev's forum and partly as a result (there were also some similar suggestions on the dev's issue report system) something along the lines of what you suggested has now been implemented. The game plays a lot nicer as a result, I think. Thanks for your input!
Setzway Feb 14, 2013 @ 6:43pm 
Oh, that's cool! I didn't know that, thanks. I decided to take a break from the game and go back to it with a level head. Guess I'll check it out again sooner than expected.
Baleur Feb 18, 2013 @ 12:41pm 
Originally posted by =RoS=Justinpcgamer:
I agree with you on so many levels. I barely have just started playing the first Valley w/o Wind then I noticed that I had W/O Wind 2 and was like omg sweeeet! Installed played for a few minutes then just quit due to lack of interest and hatred of the ♥♥♥♥ty controlls.

For christs sake even Terraria Has Mousing Aiming!

Indeed. It's strange how a game released in 2013 can't even manage to pull off controls that were established way back in the day with Contra, Castlevania or even more modern examples like The Showdown Effect, Trine, Limbo, Super Meat Boy, VVVVV, Whatever. Even small indie projects by 1 man can pull off good platforming controls.

You run, you jump, you aim.
Yet somehow AVWW fails in every attempt. Why? To be unique? To have unique controls?
A square wheel is quite unique as well, that doesn't stop it from being a worse idea than a usual round wheel, now does it?
Alugere Feb 18, 2013 @ 11:08pm 
I would like to emphasize the problem with jumping. I have just attempted and died in doing so to acquire the second tier classes 3 times. I wasn't killed by the enemies, or even the bosses, no, I was killed because you surrounded the damn boss platform with lava and I couldn't jump to safety after the fight.

At the first fight, you seem to have decided to put the platform I need to jump onto to leave the area a few pixels above my maximum jump height. Fortunately, I could land on a slightly submerged platform in the lava and jump to safety after losing 1 heart and taking 60 magma damage.

At the second, I can't make it to a submerged platform and die before getting to safety.

This is annoying as I can kill the boss, I just get killed because of bad platform spacing.

While I understand having lava as mood lighting for the fight and to make people watch their step, I don't understand why it must be so difficult to jump across once you are done fighting.
Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50