ArchKali 2013년 4월 24일 오전 9시 52분
I don't get it
I played the first game and then tried again with subsequent updates, and then gave the second one some time, but I just don't really get it. Arcen is a strange company - they make some really amazing stuff (AI War was a revelation) but Shattered Haven a total head-scratching letdown.

I do applaud them for their experimentation and dare I say - audacity - trying new things, but thsi AVWW stuff is just not connecting with me at all.
ArchKali님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 8월 12일 오전 3시 17분
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Darxio 2013년 4월 29일 오전 11시 11분 
AVWW 1 was pretty groundbreaking to me at the time. Play that. Enjoy it for what it is, maybe with some friends. It's pretty great.

2 is strange. I'll never understand the train of thought that went into mouse hatred from the beginning. I was one of the people that wished to use a mouse to aim on the 8 directions instead of everywhere, since my fingers don't like to cooperate with my brain on the keyboard, but work great with a mouse.
Saracen26 2013년 4월 29일 오후 11시 59분 
There is method in Chris Park's madness. Whilst the genre clash of platformer and turn based Strategy just seems beyond bizarre, I find it to somehow work incredibly well.

As for Shattered Haven... I quite like it. Truth be told, it's not the greatest game, and still needs work. But it provides what I expected of it, and I enjoy it for what it is. The same goes for the original AVWW. I have quite a soft spot for Tidalis too... an Arcen game, no-one has hardly played or heard of. I'm not a fan of the match 3 genre of puzzle game, but that really was an enjoyable game.

Still, if this is not for you. Arcen are returning to the Strategy realm with Skyward Collapse. That is certainly one game I can see being awesome. That is of course providing Chris Park pours the labour of love into it the same way he did (and still is) with AI war. The idea of being a God where you have to balance 2 sides and prevent them from destroying each other, whilst ensuring they engage in all out war is an innovative concept too hard to ignore. I can't wait for it!
FroBodine 2013년 5월 26일 오후 3시 07분 
I really enjoy Shattered Haven too. It is a very good action, puzzle game, with around 100 levels and multiple endings. What don't you like about it, ArchKali? I do think that the interface could use a bit of cleaning up, especially with item selection, but it's a great game, and the levels are very interesting with new twists all the way throughout the game.

Anyway, yeah, it's fun. And so is AI War. And so is Skyward Collapse.

I'll stop now before I start acting like too much of an Arcen fanboy.
Saracen26 2013년 5월 26일 오후 3시 24분 
Nothing wrong being an Arcen Fanboy. Skyward Collapse is incredible!

If it put any doubts into the minds of certain Arcen followers, Skyward is certainly a redemption.

That's not really a fanboy comment either... Well partially it is. But the game still is as brilliant as I hoped for!
ArchKali 2013년 5월 26일 오후 11시 28분 
It's not that I don't like it - I just don't really connet with AVWW like I expected to. I was a sucked into Terraria immediately and understoof everything intuitively (and I came at it more from Simon Belmont than Minecraft) but AVWW just seemed too clunky. I would love to see yet another iteration, even after the "sequel". Just feels like it needs more development. Doesn't need to be as obtuse as it is.

That said, I have my copy of Skyward collapse and am dying to play it.
Kaitty 2013년 6월 4일 오후 6시 01분 
I'm disappointed with AVWW2. I put in about 25 hours into the first game, I liked the exploration, the deep levels, the intricate map system (even if it was a tad frustrating to find co-op partners) and the randomly generated /everything./ AVWW2 immediately got frustrating with the controls - especially the spells that move with your character.

After about two and a half hours, me and my partner were pretty much done. The graphics aren't much of a leap, mainly due to the engine. In fact, I think all of the shortcomings come from the engine that isn't finely tuned for an action-rpg experience. There are a lot of *really* cool ideas and innovations that would work if it were closer to Terraria or Starbound's engine.

Arcen still has my respect and business though, after all, I didn't even pay for this sequel. I can't think of many game developers that would go so far out of their way to please their customers.
Kaitty님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 6월 4일 오후 6시 01분
Tower Dove 2013년 6월 16일 오전 7시 53분 
Yes headscratching and pretty poorly designed. Look at dust an elysian tail: dev by only 1 guy, and the gameplay looks like something. In AVWW1 it was ok to have ♥♥♥♥♥♥ gameplay because the game gave a whole new atmosphere and new approach. AVWW2 is just bad, really really bad. It's probably one of the worst games I have on steam tbh. And the worst part, I think I'm objective. Arcen succeeded to achieve a gameplay worst than 95% of free flash based games. Gratz.
GrandMugwump 2013년 6월 22일 오후 5시 08분 
AVWW 2 struck me as a step sideways from AVWW. There's less delving of the deeps and waaaaaaaay less spell variety. They literally only have around 10 spells put into different combinations for each class while changing only their projectile art or even just their color to match the class' theme. And the bosses are just straight up terrible. I'm trying to remember how long it has been since it was acceptable to have bosses that pace back and forth on a platform while rotating between three attacks. And the final boss' special bonus is he FLOATS!! Sarcasm aside, the bosses seriously needed something to make them more interesting to fight and more varied like the paladin using light magic, the necromancer using dark magic, etc. The bosses were a colossal disappointment.

However, the reason I see it as a step sideways instead of a step backwards is the turn based side of AVWW 2 did a decent job of adding direction to the game. In AVWW it was just a grind fest to see how far or how deep one could go before dying or retreating, but in AVWW 2, the level would have a relic stashed away, a generator to destroy, or some other objective for the player to chase down to benefit the resistance. And the snippets of storyline the bosses throw out are pretty good. It was the same idea of finding snippets of storyline that made me go back to AVWW 1 for another 10 hours of gameplay when they introduced the backstory / lore in it.

I hope, if AVWW 3 or a spiritual successor is in the works, they take the combat, exploration, and spell variety of AVWW 1 and combine it with the survivor and turn-based ideas of AVWW 2, That would probably be a step forward.
Tower Dove 2013년 6월 22일 오후 5시 19분 
the whole concept has great potential. Just need to be executed a truelly different way.
JoeShmo 2013년 8월 11일 오후 7시 10분 
Kind of a late post, but I wanted to share my thoughts. (This forum doesnt move much either way)

The part that always got me about AVWW ( and a related game "Intrusion 2" ) was that it felt way too much like an old flash game, something you would find on New*grounds (Why is that site censored?).

The aesthetics around flash games was that you were basically making animated models that worked like puppets ( Think QWOP ) . The way the animations / movement / combat / etc work in AVWW is 99% identical to a low budget flash game. Now while the "behind the scenes" work could be a lot different, the front end of the game is rather low quality, and blocky in functionality. Both the AVWW games play like they are paper cutouts , sumerged in water or in deep space (where gravity has little hold on them) and everything functions on a very strict line pattern; meaning that if you wanted to do something you had to picture a string being stretched out from your character, and only the things that fall onto the line can be interacted with.

IMO, i never found the games interesting or interactive. While the creative designs around some of the mechanics sounded intriguing (like the tactical map sections) , the execution of them were basic at most, and not all that flashy ( not saying its a graphical issue like 1080p graphics, but that it lacks pull and imagination ). I could never get it out of my mind that i was playing a new*grounds game, since the game just played identical to one ( the main reason i cant play intrusion 2 either ).
JoeShmo님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 8월 11일 오후 7시 12분
[WITRAG]Ryjeon 2013년 9월 1일 오전 1시 09분 
I really enjoy the platforming action of AVWW2 with a controller. Having to interrupt that gameplay with the strategy section is a pretty big turn off for me. I wish I could just automate my allies and stick to exploring and playing with the various mage classes. I really think it's a stellar platformer though. One of my favorites, sadly conjoined with another game I don't care to play.
RadKit 2013년 9월 6일 오후 1시 26분 
After playing 10 hours of AVWW 1, and then trying out AVWW 2.... Aside from 2 being a completely different game, 1 is superior in practically every way, but most importantly the combat and animations. I dunno what the heck they were thinking with 2, fine change all the gameplay and stuff, idc, but what the heck... AVWW 1 was smooth, AVWW 2 is practically rusted.
Sleightblind 2013년 9월 12일 오후 8시 51분 
RadKit님이 먼저 게시:
After playing 10 hours of AVWW 1, and then trying out AVWW 2.... Aside from 2 being a completely different game, 1 is superior in practically every way, but most importantly the combat and animations. I dunno what the heck they were thinking with 2, fine change all the gameplay and stuff, idc, but what the heck... AVWW 1 was smooth, AVWW 2 is practically rusted.

Qwar 2013년 9월 15일 오전 4시 35분 
Gah, I'm done, I cannot stand aiming without the mouse. Seriously who could think this was a good idea? There are a million ways you could have implemented the 4 spells without getting rid of the mouse.

This one requires 5 times more movement precision than the first AVWW, to dodge enemy attacks, yet you are stuck with spells that are a pain to aim, since you must move yourself in order to shoot anything that isn't directly in front of you (and most of the time you'll still have to crouch, taking hits yet again because you're not moving).

I didn't die in AVWW until 15 hours into the game, and that because I got overconfident and refused to use an escape scroll. In AVWW2 by turn 5 I had died twice. It's too frustrating and I'm not gonna keep playing.
Demonio Indexador 2013년 9월 15일 오전 10시 34분 

I loved AVWW sometime, because of it's strange aesthetic and music. Sooo mystic! But in the long run, it felt very boring for me.

So, AVWW2 instead was some crazy fun! I liked the idea of using a controller and the need of dodging bullets by moving, jumping, crouching, etc... while attacking. I have to say, though, the game was not very well balanced (in many stages it was tooo easy, and suddenly so hard thaat the boss did me damage equal to 3 times my full hp meter o-O, that's not normal).

Well! They were good in some ways.
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