More beginner's friendly than Icewind Dale?

[ben_is_able]

I've been curious about getting into the D&D PC RPGs, and I'm wondering if this or Icewind Dale is good for someone first getting into these types of games. I do have some experience playing actual table top D&D, does that benefit me in anyway? And how hard would you say they are? Thanks for the tips.

[Tommy]

baldurs gate is perfect, easy to start with, ok, you might have to load your save so make sure that you do save.

[Alpha]

On normal difficulty levels both games are fairly easy once you understand the mechanics. I'd say Icewind Dale is easier since you can start with a 6 person party right from the start (which allows some very cheesy combinations if you know what you are doing). Its possible to play Baldurs Gate with 6 own characters as well, but its supposed to be played with the pre-made npcs (of which most have their flaws) for the full experience of party interaction and banter. (I highly recommend the BG1 npc mods to improve that even more).

Your D&D experience might help you here and there with basic knowledge, but you have to keep in mind that the games are almost 20 years old now, and the ruleset they are based on is AD&D from around 1980.. i would imagine that lots of things have changed since then, seeing how different Neverwinter NIghts already is (which uses D&D 3rd edition rules.)
I assume basics will remain the same, but the games can be beaten without "real" D&D knowledge just fine. I managed it back in the day when i was 13, so you should be fine too.

[ben_is_able]

Thanks guys for the responses! @Alpha, considering what you said, I'm not sure if having the 6 person party from the start would persuade me in either direction, but it's good to know. With everything kept in mind, which one would you recommend overall?

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition is more beginner friendly for various reasons, such as:

* There are no time limits for early quests.
* You don't need to care about your party reputation and the alignment of NPC companions, because there are no NPC companions in this game. It is as if you used the "Create Party" button in BG to create all six companions yourself.
* There is no level cap. You can reach very high levels.
* Story is much more linear that in BG. You complete a mission to unlock the next area. Rinse repeat.
* As a last resort, there is the Story Mode difficulty setting in this game, too, which you can turn on any time, and it makes you invincible.

[Alpha]

Originally posted by ben_is_able:

Thanks guys for the responses! @Alpha, considering what you said, I'm not sure if having the 6 person party from the start would persuade me in either direction, but it's good to know. With everything kept in mind, which one would you recommend overall?

Overall i will recommend Baldurs Gate (ignore Dragonspear). (i also recommend to get BG 2 as well, as its even better).

Icewind Dale is more combat/dungeon focused and the pacing is a little bit better. BG1 in comparison has alot of forest/open areas and more exploration, a bigger world and freedom in general.
Baldurs Gate 1 starts very very slow though. (both in story and combat due to being low level and having a very low level cap). But after a while the story develops and you learn more and more and it gets really good.
Icewind Dales Story is not bad either, but the focus is more on the combat part of the game. You fight more monsters and you level up way faster. There is very little exploration and only a few side quests. You basically go from dungeon to dungeon with short re-supply stops in the town inbetween.

Personally i prefer the story and the party interactions over the ability to create an own party. Also the Baldurs Gate games offer more content. (I finished all of the games several times and it still takes me around 130 hours to finish both BG1 and 2 in combination while it only takes around 35 to finish IWD).

[wendigo211]

I would say IWD is a little harder to get started because:

1. The game expects you to know how to create an effective party of 6 characters. The ecnounters are balanced for it. That means the battles are harder and, because it's a more linear game with fewer choices to go off and do your own thing to level up, it's less forgiving of mistakes. You can create a party of 6 characters in BG as well and steamroll through everything.
   
2. Random itemization. In BG all the items are in fixed locations. If your character needs a particular item, you can look up where it is on the wiki and go get it, in IWD you might never get the item your character needs.
   
3. The game wasn't made with D&D 2.5 kits in mind. The kits were added in the EE, for the most part they make the game easier, but HLAs were left out and there are a few other things that just don't work the way should and some kits that are completely useless.
   
4. There is a shortage of scrolls for mages. Mages are the power houses in all D&D games, but you only have enough scrolls for one or two arcane casters in the game. It's easy get messed up if you have more than that.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by ben_is_able:

Thanks guys for the responses! @Alpha, considering what you said, I'm not sure if having the 6 person party from the start would persuade me in either direction, but it's good to know. With everything kept in mind, which one would you recommend overall?

Both are good, but if you had to pick one I'd go with Baldur's Gate. BG1 has probably aged the worst of all the Infinity Engine games, but some of the late game content still holds up, and Siege of Dragonspear is pretty good. Mostly I'd say play Baldur's Gate 1 so you can take that character into Baldur's Gate 2 (which has held up much better) and play the whole story line from beginning to end.

As far as which is harder to start, I'd say Baldur's Gate is. You can create a full custom party in Icewind Dale, so you can make sure all the important rolls are covered by statistically optimal characters. Baldur's Gate you start alone, and if you main character dies, it's game over.

[ben_is_able]

Okay, thanks for the input, guys! I'm leaning towards Baldur's Gate...but am totally open to other input if y'all have it. Thank you. :)

[levelworm]

Iceinwd Dale EE is combat oriented i.e. there is not much story behind the whole thing, and there is few branches, if at all. So if you like combats that's the game to play first (and get familiar with Infinity engine and game logics). However if you are like me, I really suck at combats, even after so many years of playing these games, then you will lean toward Baldur's Gate.

Baldur's Gate is a huge serie that probably take you around 500 hours for just one play through from BG1 to BG1:TOSC to SOD to BG2 and finally BG2:TOB, much more if you die a lot. It's more free than IWD, and you can skip most of the areas to do some fetch-and-return quests to gain some experience. But, if you are not familiar with the game you will get lost quickly, so I'd suggest that you keep a walkthrough by hand in case you need to make a serious decision or have no idea where to go.

It's difficult to say which one is more friendly to newbies. I'd say neither, because the games have a steep learning curve with a lot of hidden mechanics that can only be made clear when you die again and again. But there are analysis articles out there so I'd suggest read them before you plunge into the games.

These games also take very long time to just complete a single run. My estimation of a completeist run (with detail walkthrough by hand to maximize experience and make sure nothing important is lost) of the games with a full party is as following:

Baldur's Gate (exclude TOSC material i.e. Durlag's Tower + Werewolf Island + Ice Island + Misc TOSC quests): Around 100 - 125 hours

TOSC: 20-30 hours, because Durlag's Tower is pretty tough, might take a lot more simply for reloading saves and coming and going for potions/ammos

SOD: Not sure, never finished the game, going to wait for the next playthrough, estimation is around 30-40 hours?

Baldur's Gate 2 (exclude Watcher's Keep, the only TOB material you may enjoy during the whole game): Honestly it's difficult to tell, I have already spent 145 hours and I still have two important branches (Windspear and Trademeet) untouched and many misc. quests/encounters unfought (Shandalar, the Shadow Dragon, Demi-lich, many Companion quests, Guarded Compound, some Temple quests, Stronghold quests, too many others). For the main quests I'm ready to confront Bohdi for the last time and then move on to the forest for the last chapter, but I put that on hold for exploring the first two levels of Watcher's Keep. Estimation is 180-200 hours.

TOB: Not sure really, because last playthourgh was a few years ago and I never finished the game. Some combats are very difficult and I sucked at combats. I'd estimate around 100 hours because you really need to plan EVERY encounter carefully or reload A LOT. TOB is combat oriented in the way different from IWD/IWD2: Almost every major encounter gives you a group of epic characters to fight against, and it's common for the mages to cast Time stop / Gate and other level 9 spells, and the fighters are really bad-ass guys with massive damage and can kill CHAR in a few rounds if you are not careful. You also get to fight many extra-planars in the expansion, so it really expands the universe of the series.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

• The game expects you to know how to create an effective party of 6 characters.

Fair point, but the game offers a default party. There is a manual. Six party slots provide enough room to cover the typical roles, such as warrior, thief, magician, healer, supporter, ranger/hunter/archer. There is Story Mode to become invincible any time player needs that.

Comparing that with BG 1, you need to decide on a single character to start with. Maybe a weak wizard. The tutorial castle includes a few fights already. Out in the wilderness, the first wolf causes many new players a first problem. And those, who try to rush through the story, encounter Tarnesh and quit in rage.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by ben_is_able:

Okay, thanks for the input, guys! I'm leaning towards Baldur's Gate...but am totally open to other input if y'all have it. Thank you. :)

Both games have identical gameplay, so it's really down to personal preference. Baldur's Gate focuses more on story and character, while Icewind Dale is all about dungeon crawling. Go with whichever sounds more appealing to you. Both games are easy on normal difficulty,
especially since you're already familar with D&D.

[DaveBoyle3rd]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

• The game expects you to know how to create an effective party of 6 characters.

Fair point, but the game offers a default party. There is a manual. Six party slots provide enough room to cover the typical roles, such as warrior, thief, magician, healer, supporter, ranger/hunter/archer. There is Story Mode to become invincible any time player needs that.

Comparing that with BG 1, you need to decide on a single character to start with. Maybe a weak wizard. The tutorial castle includes a few fights already. Out in the wilderness, the first wolf causes many new players a first problem. And those, who try to rush through the story, encounter Tarnesh and quit in rage.

If Tarnesh is who I think, I saved and loaded many times. Seemed pretty strong for the area of the game. However, on the EE the fight seemed easier.

IWD has a lot of traps and is really a dungeon crawler.

[voehringer_nitron]

Tarnesh is the Mage on the steps to the Friendly Arm Inn. Fight generally goes Mirror Image, Horror, Magic Missile (usually targeted at CHARNAME).

[Coldhands]

I always just spread my party out at the bottom of the steps and have Monteron go talk to him. If Monteron goes down, I never loved him anyway.

[Flick]

Originally posted by ben_is_able:

I've been curious about getting into the D&D PC RPGs, and I'm wondering if this or Icewind Dale is good for someone first getting into these types of games. I do have some experience playing actual table top D&D, does that benefit me in anyway? And how hard would you say they are? Thanks for the tips.

Just do minsc side quest before entering the mines and you should be fine ((edited out find here) as in I wrote the word find instead of fine)