Retrovirus > General Discussions > トピックの詳細
CLBrown 2013年10月16日 10時12分
Last chance before quitting the game...
Okay, I realize that I'll get "mocked" for saying this, but I've just hit a point in Retrovirus where I cannot get past... I've replayed from a save immediately prior to that, about two dozen times now, and can find no way to get past this point.

For those who haven't the game, or who haven't made it up to the "industry" level... you may want to stop reading now.

In this system, you get into the "trains" system, and are working through to a point where you have to change from a track going one direction to a track going the other direction. I saved immediately prior to that point... after clearing out a room just before that with an "overhead" area and one of the "crates" you need to recover.

The problem is... because of the racing trains, you have to just rush into the area ahead. You can't lure the enemies out, and take them on individually, you can't take cover... and there are too many enemies (and infections) to take out in the time available. And you can't retreat, because of the trains.

I'm sure that someone thought that this was a "really cool level" and to this point, it has been, but when there's a "special trick" that the designers had in mind, which require you to have a specific set of "skills" and a specific "track" you have to follow... plus you have to play it EXACTLY as they would (I'm not fifteen anymore, and as much as I hate to admit it, my reflexes aren't QUITE as good as they once were!)...

... well, the game becomes IMPOSSIBLE. And that's not fun.

So... someone, ANYONE, who has figured out how to beat this (some special strategy which allows you to not get ripped to shreds while out in the open in a confined space you can't exit, surrounded by enemies which have clear shots at you from every direction), and a train which kills you if any of them so much as BUMP you or if you try to manuever at all... please share your strategy.

Otherwise, this game is "done" from my standpoint now, and I'll be uninstalling it.

Games with "unbeatable unless you are EXACTLY the guy who wrote it" levels... they're what I refer to as BADLY DESIGNED GAMES.

But maybe, this is just the one spot where this design defect occurs, so I'm willing to give it another shot... IF I can get past this one INCREDIBLY OBNOXIOUS "arena" which I've already been wiped out in, in a matter of seconds, about two dozen times in.
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orb 2013年10月16日 10時43分 
I passed the Industry level easily (with 95% scan) during the "free weekend", even before I've bought the game. I don't remember the strategy exactly, but that means it wasn't as hard as some further levels (with new enemies, and non-destructible allied towers, which shoot at you, too).

IIRC, there are places you can hide/take cover for sure, like for example next to green/red signal lights for trains.

Do you use "boost" key to follow the trains?
CadenzaDev01  [開発者] 2013年10月16日 12時58分 
I'm sorry you are feeling frustrated. As a developer I can say that this part is especially difficult and that there is no special trick required to complete this area. One strategy I've used on the most difficult setting to complete this area is as follows:

www.cadenzainteractive.com/media/RVImage/Industry.JPG

(#1) Timing is important with the trains... rush in guns blazing prioritizing the most (#2) deadly threat first and take shelter either temporarily in the train tunnel (until another train comes) or dive for a lower corner of the first room (#3). From the (#3) position stay low, taking out everything above you being careful to take out those infected conductor bots with the sniping beams. Those guys are VERY tough. From this position clear out as much as you can without flying up. Flying up to the top part will only attract more critters. Once you have a foothold on this first room, slowly make your way up to (#4). Clear as much in (#5) as possible from the top level. Continue on out (#6).

This is by no means the only strategy, it is what works for me. Please let me know if I can help out any more.
Plaid 2013年10月16日 20時56分 
I basically adjusted my upgrades, did a deep scan before I arrived, and went in full blast.
You just need to take care of that initial area then you can take it "easy" again :)

Took me a few tries but I eventually got through it.
最近の変更はPlaidが行いました; 2013年10月16日 20時56分
CLBrown 2013年10月21日 13時38分 
Okay, I did try the "adjusting my upgrades" approach... basically trying different combinations of the available "upgrades"... and found that the double-machine-gun-type-weapon combo, with extra damage (and lost accuracy) allowed me... just barely... to get past this point.

So... I'll continue playing past this point, for now. But I still hold that this, like I stated before, is a poorly designed spot in the game. (The remainder, to this point, has been really GOOD design, mind you, which is the main reason I care about it... I stopped playing Daikatana long, long before this point, for example!)

But... it does seem that there's only on "path" allowed at this point in the game... one possible fighting style... one possible weapons combo... and you have to shoot the right enemies in just the right sequence, and to "get lucky" and hit them all just right as well.

Trust me when I say "hard" isn't something I shy away from... but I prefer something that challenges my MIND more than something that just challenges my twitch-reflexes. Maybe having a little "alcove" in the corridor which just BARELY sees into the first area... just for example... or maybe a vent shaft leading to that area, in a spot where you'd be unlikely to find it unless you were being VERY "curious" during the pathway up to that point... well, those would make this particular spot a LOT more fun from the perspective of someone like me.

And that's how I always played Descent, too... using caution, doing my recon, plotting out where things MIGHT be using the 3D map, and so forth... not just rushing in, gun-a-blazin." This isn't "Serious Sam," after all...

But... all that said... the rest of the game, so far, hasn't required the "rush in and be overwhelmed" approach, so I'm not "damning the whole game" based upon this one badly designed spot.

CadenzaDev, thanks for your pointers, by the way... I saw them just after I managed to beat this spot, so they didn't help, but they might've had I seen them first.

And Plaid, what you suggested is what I ended up needing to do. I had to abandone the "style" I'd chose to pursue to that point and shift gears into some other, totally different approach.

But... the fact that the game required me to use a specific combination of weapons/upgrades at that point, rather than allowing me the flexibility to fight as I choose (or rather, without giving me any remote chance of survival without having the "one approved combo" at that point)... it's not a "satisfier" in my book.

Anyway... I'm past it so this thread is "done" as far as I'm concerned, unless anyone else wants to discuss this more.
Plaid 2013年10月21日 20時13分 
I might be thinking of a different area but isn't there a little spot directly across the train tracks where you can chill out, without getting hit by the train? I seem to remember attracting some of them over to that area and watching them get hit by the train.

It's probably too late to go back and check now, unless you replay that particular level, but maybe someone else can chime in.
最近の変更はPlaidが行いました; 2013年10月21日 20時15分
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