Andante Jan 11, 2013 @ 8:25pm
This board PROOF todays gamers are the most entitled and whiniest generation ever to be born
Lets look at the offering of "You Need a Budget 4" objectively by listing the pros and cons of steam offering this software.

Pros
-Offers people willing to spend $60 an efficient budgeting software
-Quality software with great reviews so far, so anyone in need of such software knows they are not getting ripped off

Cons
-... nothing (you can be a smartass and say but its $60, however no one is forcing you to buy it)

These are the Pros and Cons of steam offering such software to the steam community and not of the software itself.

For steam to offer this software for $60, there is objectively ZERO cons and all pros.

For something to be all pros and zero cons yet recieve such negative feedback, it just proves that todays generation of gamers are possiblity the most entitled (not to mention whiniest) demographic on this planet.
Last edited by Andante; Jan 11, 2013 @ 8:25pm
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TSKaiser Jan 11, 2013 @ 11:17pm 
To play devil's advocate:

Having Steam offer up applications other than games is a symptom of them changing Steam to something else than what people want to use it for. It is the equivalent of your favorite gaming shop turning into a supermarket, or your cozy pizzabar turning into an Italian restaurant. While functionally not a problem, it creates dissonance. It also potentially threatens what Steam will invest time in improving - potentially taking resources away from what it is used for today, or changing the store page to mix non-game applications with the gaming applications which can be irritating if you only want Steam to show you games when you browse.

Personally I don't find this a problem, and I don't see Steam changing radically into something else than what it is, but I can certainly understand why others would be peeved and I acknowledge their right to be so. It is indeed relevant for those only interested in games that non-game applications start popping up in their feeds.

That said I would probably be buying YNAB directly from the creators rather than through Steam, mostly because Steam is convinced that Euro == Dollars. I am, however, glad I was made aware of the application through Steam. Still on the fence though... Sixty dollars is still a lot of money for me.
Last edited by TSKaiser; Jan 11, 2013 @ 11:18pm
TallmanMikeUK Jan 12, 2013 @ 4:54pm 
I have to agree with Godbeast. One of the things that irritated me the most about Xbox LIVE (before I stopped using it altogether..) is that they had introduced so many movie rental, video streaming, internet radio etc. functions that gaming was actually something like the 5th item on the main menu.

It's good to have variety, but I really think Steam should just stick to doing what it does best, which is games.
Dr.Killswitch Jan 12, 2013 @ 5:17pm 
^^^^^^^^^
RodeoClown  [developer] Jan 12, 2013 @ 5:20pm 
If you have a problem with Steam having software on there, you'll need to take it up with Valve support. Hopefully they'll have better filtering in the future, so if you don't want to see software, you won't (although right now you only see it if it has just been released, or is in the top seller list. Otherwise, you need to click on the 'software' tab to see it).
Wolfi Jan 12, 2013 @ 7:52pm 
And also, Steam is only offering targeted software, I only see things that might interest a "gamer", such as 3D editing softwares, picture browsing and huh... a budgeting software :D People might feel offended when their niche is invaded by something targeted at them with a negative value (meaning: you're ♥♥♥♥♥s who can't handle their wallet, go cure that).

That might explain all the over reaction: people feel guilty and don't like to be reminded once again they're spending money on useless stuff, such as... games on steam :D

On the other hand, why would the creators put their software on steam ? Even if it was via Greenlight, it still was after the devs wanted it to be there right ? They do think gamers are a valuable target, and I wonder if we could have any stats on the success of this hypothesis of theirs :)
Last edited by Wolfi; Jan 12, 2013 @ 7:57pm
RodeoClown  [developer] Jan 12, 2013 @ 8:03pm 
I use Steam all the time, and when Valve announced that they were opening it up to software, I thought we'd fit pretty well.

I can't give you stats, I'm sorry, but suffice to say, we've covered our initial time investment to get YNAB up and running via Steam. We also hit the top 100 sellers list during the Holiday Sale, so we're doing OK here :)
2core_neo Jan 12, 2013 @ 10:53pm 
Wolfi, you are practically an untapped market. Your generation wasn't even taught how to balance a checkbook in public school. I agree with you in that some might actually feel guilty. A little guilt isn't such a bad thing. It's like stress. Without stress, nothing is accomplished. I wish I was taught this stuff years ago.
2core_neo Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:04pm 
This really should be the longest thread in the YNAB forum. I come here to browse when I'm tired or cranky. After a few posts, I'm back to feeling like a decent person again :) But some of you have heart problems. Bigtime...

Pros: Personal accountability. That doesn't just mean numbers...

Cons: OMG OMG OMG MY STEAM WT? WT? OMG.


I feel so much better now :)
2core_neo Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:06pm 
BTW I payed $45 FTW
Wolfi Jan 13, 2013 @ 8:56am 
Originally posted by 2core_neo:
Wolfi, you are practically an untapped market. Your generation wasn't even taught how to balance a checkbook in public school. I agree with you in that some might actually feel guilty. A little guilt isn't such a bad thing. It's like stress. Without stress, nothing is accomplished. I wish I was taught this stuff years ago.

Was your generation taught how to balance a checkbook at school ? I'm 24 btw, how old are you so that we can understand our generation gap ? And I'm not american, so it's not exactly the same, we are taught at school to FLEE from credit cards :D
CJM Jan 13, 2013 @ 8:56am 
I'm 27, and I was not taught at school to balance a checkbook, or flee credit cards. Credit cards were not that big of a problem back then. Ever since High School, Credit Cards have been all the rage though,...

Originally posted by Andante:
For something to be all pros and zero cons,...
Everything has cons, even YNAB. You just haven't noticed them yet. Most users will probably not notice any cons for the first year, maybe not even after two years of use. That is unless they expected a feature from the get go.

Originally posted by Andante:
...yet recieve such negative feedback.
Yeah, I agree on this point.

I like the idea of Steam being a one-stop-shop for software. Got too used to that on Linux, and I hate having to buy software from Wal-Mart, or Newegg.com these days. Just give me an account licensed digital distribution model. Also, make sure the software works when I need it, such as when the internet is down, and I can't access the bills I have paid, or my checking account,... Steam DRM is notorious for being difficult to get into offline mode, and stay there.
Last edited by CJM; Jan 13, 2013 @ 8:58am
2core_neo Jan 13, 2013 @ 11:19am 
I'm 45, Wolfi. When I was in school credit cards weren't mainstream like now, though there were department store and gas cards. I too like the one-stop shopping approach to buying all forms of software on Steam. Even newegg sells window fans and coffee makers now, but they are still my favorite. I was taught that my dollar is a vote. It is a vote in that I hope the companies who receive my dollars succeed, and not that all the others fail.
Wolfi Jan 13, 2013 @ 2:21pm 
Originally posted by 2core_neo:
I'm 45, Wolfi. When I was in school credit cards weren't mainstream like now, though there were department store and gas cards. I too like the one-stop shopping approach to buying all forms of software on Steam. Even newegg sells window fans and coffee makers now, but they are still my favorite. I was taught that my dollar is a vote. It is a vote in that I hope the companies who receive my dollars succeed, and not that all the others fail.

Yeah that's very american in a way. We never say that a dollar is a vote, which is another way to explain what a boycott is. I don't really know if it's good or not: you feel like you have power over a company by not buying their product and it may work, but it's also often used as a way to not regulate by law : "if you're not happy don't buy"... and things go on as usual since most people don't really care or know about the problem if there is one anyway.
2core_neo Jan 13, 2013 @ 3:04pm 
Originally posted by Wolfi:
Originally posted by 2core_neo:
I'm 45, Wolfi. When I was in school credit cards weren't mainstream like now, though there were department store and gas cards. I too like the one-stop shopping approach to buying all forms of software on Steam. Even newegg sells window fans and coffee makers now, but they are still my favorite. I was taught that my dollar is a vote. It is a vote in that I hope the companies who receive my dollars succeed, and not that all the others fail.

Yeah that's very american in a way. We never say that a dollar is a vote, which is another way to explain what a boycott is. I don't really know if it's good or not: you feel like you have power over a company by not buying their product and it may work, but it's also often used as a way to not regulate by law : "if you're not happy don't buy"... and things go on as usual since most people don't really care or know about the problem if there is one anyway.
Actually it was just one of my economics teachers in high school that instilled that notion into us. I wouldn't say it's "American". Personal boycott? Sure. In the end, having a clear conscience is what really matters.
segaboi Jan 28, 2013 @ 10:34pm 
Sheesh... The current generation of gamers is entitled and whiney... Just becasue Steam is adding new and unfamiliar content doesnt mean that the games will ever dissapear. Everyone is so wrapped up in crying about what they want Steam to be. We don't own Valve.. we aren't Gabe... Valve can change and evolve, like any smart business, tp stay ahead. Have an open mind.. stop being b**ches. You dont complain about a 60 dollar game that we'll play through and beat once maybe twice...but you will about a piece of software that will provide a lifetime of use?..
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Date Posted: Jan 11, 2013 @ 8:25pm
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