Sang-Froid - Tales of Werewolves

Sang-Froid - Tales of Werewolves

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Issac Brock Jun 8, 2013 @ 8:03am
What happens to unused action points?
Do they just dissapear? I tried to find an answer to this before I posted.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Termix Jun 8, 2013 @ 8:26am 
Yes, later on you can transfer APs you don't need into money (wood symbol in the bar 10 AP for 1 cent with talents 4 / 7 / 10 cents).
Issac Brock Jun 8, 2013 @ 8:42am 
I actually did get that far in the game, it's what got me wondering about what happens to the action points that I didn't convert into chopped wood and what happened to the action points I didn't use before I could chop wood. Thanks Termix, for the answer.
Last edited by Issac Brock; Jun 8, 2013 @ 8:42am
Termix Jun 8, 2013 @ 9:47am 
If you start a night with action points unused the game will tell you "unused action points will be turned into money" - I left some AP unspent to try it, but I guess that only applies after you got the possibility to chop wood.
The only thing that annoys me a bit is that I have too much silver - can't use it anymore :/
Issac Brock Jun 8, 2013 @ 3:09pm 
Originally posted by Termix:
If you start a night with action points unused the game will tell you "unused action points will be turned into money" - I left some AP unspent to try it, but I guess that only applies after you got the possibility to chop wood.
The only thing that annoys me a bit is that I have too much silver - can't use it anymore :/


Too much silver? Awww man that's gotta hurt...lol. Fun game.
V4ND4L Jun 9, 2013 @ 11:37pm 
Yeah, I haven't run into that problem yet of too much silver.
Tripoteur Ventripotent Jun 10, 2013 @ 10:07am 
I could imagine that. I'm maybe 75% into the game and I have 15.54$, so I expect I'd have quite a decent amount left over even if I bought the 8.00 rifle (I don't use them for damage), the 2.00 vest and all the potions available.

I use very few traps and generally get to convert 2/3 or 3/4 of my AP into cash. With the logging skill maxed, this yields crazy money.
Duomtl Jun 10, 2013 @ 11:08am 
Ya the logging skill is a bit OP lol
Tripoteur Ventripotent Jun 10, 2013 @ 2:51pm 
Originally posted by Duomtl:
Ya the logging skill is a bit OP lol

I'm definitely getting that impression!

But I seem to be particularly good at saving AP and from what I read here, not everyone can do that. The game's difficulty level is unusual in that some people find it super easy and others super hard.

The funny thing about the logging skill is, it's way OP if the player saves up AP (basically gives you unlimited money), but it's entirely useless if the player needs all AP to complete the night.

With some extra money, you have better gear and don't need to spend as much AP per night, and not needing extra power you can put skill points in logging rather than other skills, so you'll be able to make even *more* cash... while a struggling player doesn't get to save much AP, so he wouldn't put points in logging; it would have limited benefits and he'd also have to give up another skill, one that he needs because he's barely strong enough to finish nights.

I find that particularly ironic because one the things I admired most about Sang-froid and logging was that players could set their own difficulty and be rewarded appropriately. Using fewer traps makes the night harder but you get more cash from logging. It's just amazingly clever design. I love this.

Sadly the difficulty/reward balance falls apart after that. By rewarding good players, you make their future nights easier, while struggling players always get max difficulty for every night. But you can't punish players for good performance or reward them for bad performance, so... what do you do about that?

I gotta say, I don't envy game designers some of the balance issues they have to deal with. Sometimes there's just no easy solution.
Liro Raeriyo Jun 15, 2013 @ 9:44am 
well, you can punish excelling players with additional challenges per night(or in my case thats a reward for being good) while struggling players can be given a small break and break up the waves a bit more during a night, though the real challenge is making it so the game can recognize the difference
Issac Brock Jun 15, 2013 @ 10:25am 
Originally posted by Liro Raeriyo:
well, you can punish excelling players with additional challenges per night(or in my case thats a reward for being good) while struggling players can be given a small break and break up the waves a bit more during a night, though the real challenge is making it so the game can recognize the difference

I guess, instead of having the game recognize the difference, you could make individual groups within a wave optional with some sort of check box idea to include each group. The more groups a player picks the higher the score, rewards and experience. That way experienced players can create waves with almost insurmountable odds of surviving for bragging rights while struggling, beginner players could bring more groups in on each wave as they build skill and confidence or the player could choose to try the default scenario much like they do now.
Duomtl Jun 15, 2013 @ 11:01am 
Being able to add or remove waves like that breaks the game just as well though. More enemies = more money, and for someone that has no problem with the game, they will just get even more money with the extras. Mean while the same person that had to remove enemies is getting even less money now making things even harder. The game is balanced quite well the way it is.
Duomtl Jun 15, 2013 @ 11:01am 
Minus the logging skill ofcourse lol
poleritude Jun 17, 2013 @ 9:42am 
I would say the bonus for people who struggle is that when you complete 4 of 5 waves (or any X of Y waves) you get the keep the XP for that part of the night. If this happens a few times you end up getting an extra skill point or two before the end of the game. I think if you have a perfect run you would only hit like level 16 or 17. If you have a bunch of restarts where you "almost" win, you might finish the game at level 19 or 20.
Issac Brock Jun 17, 2013 @ 2:44pm 
Originally posted by poleritude:
I would say the bonus for people who struggle is that when you complete 4 of 5 waves (or any X of Y waves) you get the keep the XP for that part of the night. If this happens a few times you end up getting an extra skill point or two before the end of the game. I think if you have a perfect run you would only hit like level 16 or 17. If you have a bunch of restarts where you "almost" win, you might finish the game at level 19 or 20.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure exactly how that worked. It seems though that any skill points earned can't be used until the next day, or was I doing something wrong? It seemed when I tried to spend my skill point it lowered my level to level II so I could not use it that dusk.
Issac Brock Jun 19, 2013 @ 5:01pm 
Originally posted by Duomtl:
Being able to add or remove waves like that breaks the game just as well though. More enemies = more money, and for someone that has no problem with the game, they will just get even more money with the extras. Mean while the same person that had to remove enemies is getting even less money now making things even harder. The game is balanced quite well the way it is.

One technique that might offset the game breaking aspect of the optional waves is that if a player chose not to play a specific group within a specific wave the game could award them the xp plus the coin as if the player had successfully eliminated the group.

I'm just trying to come up with ways that your game could ease the player into it. I'm getting pretty long in the tooth and when you start getting ancient you appreciate games that have an easy-peasy mode until you get familiar with how it all works.

There are so many great elements to this game I'd like to see it succeed. To be frank my version is starting to collect dust because of the difficulty and the amounts of mental energy you need to set up and play a mission. I'm sure the younger gamers have no problem but you may be passing by a group of more senior players because of the game's demands.
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Date Posted: Jun 8, 2013 @ 8:03am
Posts: 15