Feedback on changes.

[FockeWulf]

Its been a few months and I got the email.

So I went to check it out.

Over all very good progress I have to say. Now so far after 5 minutes I have not been able to figure out where my purhase of the game gets my any bonuses but hopefully that will reveal itself soon. I mean like 2 hours of game play because this "protection" mechanic is still here.

Oh over-all much improved. Performance, Windowed mode (I would still like the window to capture the mouse but SC2 has this same issue so I suspect its a graphics engine vs AMD drivers gig) I will try my usual fix next time I try to get on.

But the last thing I wanted to see after checking back for the first time on months is that I have 2 hours to figure out WTF I am doing before my base gets destroyed.

First the shop: I ran some quick numbers and come to the conclusion that the most of the purchasable units were not much more powerful than the max level regular army units (I compared to some level 7's I have).

I did not find a dwarven race pack but I did find most of the units for the base.

Number one issue is the attack protection mechanic. This just cannot last. Its not the attack itself that is the main problem, its that I had to remember that the attack would not actually wipe my base for ever. The game still does a very poor job of informing me what this attack will do. So I get to use my imagination and naturally I'm going to assume its a "worst case" P2W money whoring deal by the devs. Guilty until proven other wise. Welcome to consumers. In all fairness to the consumer I've been going through a lot of this sort of thing lately and unfortunatly I'm come to assume its the norm. So my reaction was very much along the lines of "Oh great this P2W ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ again. Uninstall." That was my automatic emotional reaction to seeing the timer and seeing that I had to somehow earn the same crowns I used for teching.

So I am going to provide some suggestions in this regard.

First of all regonition of the problem: This is an Online PvP world. But that is not exactly what the button says as I recall. It just says "Online". You have to give current players something to kill but at the same time unless you have new players feeling its safe to explore the world and INVEST time and money into the game.

Now I know a bunch of idiots are going to come and say "But video games are a product not an investment. Its economics." And while technically these economist clearly know what they are talking about (remember 2000-2010 about how they were saying the "global economy" was a wonderful idea that would bring nothing but good to America?" - Hard to believe you give them any credibility after this but to each his own) in this case an economist appreciation wouldn't be relevent in any case. Because this is not a macro or micro economic system this is a consumer we are dealing with here and therefore a Psychologist is probably more qualified to state the obvious.

The consumer is treating their time and money into Free 2 Play titles and indeed video games in general as an investment. Just as consumers get invest into say... Star Trek or Star Wars they are doing the same with any thing else. Humans have been known to get emotionally comitted to rocks (rune stones any one?) so the same can obviously occur with an interactive video game. Rocks (today at least) won't talk back, a computer can be programmed to say all sorts of nasty stuff about you. Bottom line: We are imperfect humans, we get emotionally attached to very odd things, some times things others cannot even see. And this emotional attachment's behavior most closely follows the "investment" mentality as definied in economics.

This count down timer before my base meets an unknown fate (all I know is that the word "attack" will be involved and I know from all the movies where the New York glass industry is booming because all of the broken glass in a single Transformers/Avengers/<Insert Generic Action Movie Here> movie that attack "always" comes from destroy.

So you can get rid of this word "attack". Instead replace it with "raid" or a like word. The word does not imply your base is completely destroyed. But you can still lose value on your investment. Not just in structures but also units.

So I think we might want to change how structures and units are done on the economy side. Remeber the key is to increase the user's emotional and hopefully monetary investment into the game not scare them away. Combine this with PvP and this because a very tall order for any game designer. So far its never been successful.

First of all this concept of a unit (and this very much applies to a structure) needs to be changed.

Run the current implementation through your mind, and then run through this one:
My units can lose all of their combat units but still be orginizations. They can be reinforced from my cities. They can heal their wounded. If my premium dwarven riflemen get jumped by a whole clan of aroused ogres then I WONT LOSE MY PURCHASE. It will be unusable for a period, but I won't lose it. Think about it, you are asking people to buy normal units with premium currency. We have seen how fast these units die, especially in a game many of us know to be glitchy.

If instead I know that my "squad" of dwarven riflemen is going to be spending x number of hours recovering its strength then all of a sudden this becomes a much, much safer investment right?

Same thing with base structures. No base structures should be destroyed in an attack, only crippled for a period. I should see foundations that should automatically rebuild themselves after each raid. And the "raid" must have limitations. Like players should be able to steal resources but only up to a point.

In addition a non-premium way of preventing a raid is required. I suggest being able to pay tribute to a neighboring AI town to who will send an army to aid you after about 2-5 minutes. This gives the raiding player some time to get some benifit from attacking but then makes it clear he could take serious losses fighting the AI army if he does not retreat. And then his units will be out of action for hours.

Now to support the above, base mechanics need a complete over-all. And I'm talking like Sim City/Tropico overhaul (but without the road building and AI pathing mess). I should be able to invest and build up a city with civilian population to power my war machine. This is where the game can be monetized. As long as everyone has the ability to go into battle with units of equavilant power and its a battle of minds, not a battle of wallets, it should be fine.

But lest say I'm a hard core player and I've spent a lot of time playing. My empire should be powerful right? I should be able to sustain a large and long war. Well if reinforcements are drawn from my civilian population, this becomes possible.

There is also an added benifit to this change. Right now most of the pathing AI cost in my game is coming from worker units. Resource gathering. But by switching to a layout that is optimized for the job then I could potentially be able to manage multiple cities. There is a difference between rendering units mining something and having to continually calculate paths and then render. Also if workers are more directly tied to a resource building than the pathing iteration area is much, much smaller and therefore less costly on the cpu side. These structures can of course be raided but never destroyed.

As far as population mechanics go. This not only helps to build investment but also won't have an affect on any single battle. Any army is good for one fight. But lots of cannon fodder will be required to win a war. And this can all be safely monetized, I think. But only if you make it clear that the investment won't lose its over-all value. By chaning to system it suddently becomes much less punishing to lose. If they player knows from the start that they can recover without spending extra money after just having spent real cash they will be more likely to invest into the game.

Also by switiching mechanics for economy this allows you to also have the player be able to manage the game via remote app. Like on a phone.

As for maps. I think I have a map market model that would work. Base it around team play and Co-Op style games. As long as one player in a group has purhcased the game, then as long as an owner is in the game then every player in the group can battle in user-made maps for actual in game rewards (such as crowns). So they can take their hero and play lots of mini games if they don't feel like doing the main quest line or only want to play casual. Both the map developer and the game developer get money from it and the player gets the feeling of reward from an investment. The maps could be tug of war, MOBA, Hero Defense, Maze Tower Defense etc. If you can purchase a quality polished map for something under $5 and then farm it with your friends then you could have a real money machine going here.

Now in addition to this the PR department needs a major overhaul. I mean it may not be time to hype the game yet but at this rate the developer needs to take a stand (much like presidental canidates) on major issues in the industry. Because people are tired of the same-old, same-old. Sell yourselves as a struggling independant company. People respond well to the "under-dog". For instance, here are 3 magic phrases: "Long Term", "Sustainable", "Don't milk the cow dry."

The over all point is focus on consumer investment.

Here are some more articles: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-08-07-women-spend-the-most-time-and-money-on-mobile-games

Anyways unleash the trolls of EWAR!!

[Hi11Zone]

You make some good points. I understand your concerns. I will re assure you we are going to do this right this time with f2p. Nothing pay to win or broken. Keep in mind, we are a very small team.

We will take a look at some of your ideas, and see what the team thinks and what we can do to the features we are already adding. Don't worry , we are taking our time to get this launch , as perfect as we can and give the players what they want.

[bizkit_109]

Originally posted by Hi11Zone:

You make some good points. I understand your concerns. I will re assure you we are going to do this right this time with f2p. Nothing pay to win or broken. Keep in mind, we are a very small team.

We will take a look at some of your ideas, and see what the team thinks and what we can do to the features we are already adding. Don't worry , we are taking our time to get this launch , as perfect as we can and give the players what they want.

I also had a response in my post that hasn't gotten any feedback yet from the devs.. I dont think you are being honest when you say "nothing pay to win" yet you are offering a premium subscription that would put users above other users(the exact definiation of pay to win)... anyways here is my post again:

Originally posted by bizkit_109:

Thank you both for your responses Reveriw World Indie, and Langor. I now get what you are trying to do and are trying your hardest to make it not pay to win however by having that premium service element you are still doing just that.

I understand you are trying to find a way to make the game grow on a huge scale yet still gain money to support it, but by having that premium service option it doesnt keep everyone on an equal level as far as old customers when their 14 days are up, or new customers who can't pay for it. They will be on unequal footing from the people who can afford to keep the premium service. Why not put out content DLC's that contain new units, buildings, cosemetics. Things like this provide new content and intrigue more people to purchase it then simply paying to get a boost over others. it will also provide the extra money you want to continue support.

To be honest, I have never ever stuck with a F2P game because of this, any other game that provides that extra boost to others who want to pay for it seems pointless to play because it puts people on that different level. I'd much rather buy a game outright and pick and choose the DLC content/levels/whatever else I want based on what the devs add later. I have a feeling you will see that boost in players at the start but once the premium service takes it toll that number will drop drastically to just the people willing to pay out for it.

[Hi11Zone]

Really. Look at so many f2p games or mmos. Subscription gives benefits. I think You are freaking out before seeing the system live. Earning crowns, which bye the way is super easy I've made posts on this as well. . How far are you honestly thinking players will be ahead if they pay. It's small and nothing game breaking just easier. But just wait Till f2p launches and see for yourself. Trust me.

And for some players who have no idea, how best to make crowns. here is a link for you:
http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7285

[Hi11Zone]

Premium Account details are now up! Go take a look Trip.

[Konstantine @ RWS]

Bizkit_109,

I would qualify Pay to Win, as most of the MMORTS games out there, that allow purchasing units, all kind of economy e.t.c boosters, speed boosters and so on.

Our Subscription mode - can only be called: Pay to Get More out of Grinding...

Besides - you should be well aware of how our PvP system works. We will never match players who have more stuff with players who have less stuff. It always goes by army strength values.

[Konstantine @ RWS]

Triplitz88,

I appreciate the time you took to write your post. Really rare to see this type of quality feedback!

I think the problem with PvP Timer is exactly that - it is misleading. I agree - we`ll look into renaming it, and also adding a description tool-tip, that would help. I guess players just don`t understand that PvP is optional even after Timer runs out, and players can just pay out small amount of resources when attacked.

With regard to economic/gameplay suggestions - You won`t believe how close you are to the idea for the future games we had, but of-course this is a whole different topic, that I can`t get into right now. As far as Kingdom Wars - we can`t implement changes like that, but hey - I do regret us not taking this approach a while back.

With Custom Scenario - we do have to really take a different approach here. But first we would need to see interest from community. We will be advertising our Scenario tools betters with the launch of free to play. And as soon as we see that our scenario design forums are active, and there are dozens of scenarios designers ready to make some maps, we`ll start pushing this more actively - Steam workshop, a good way to share scenarios and so on.

[FockeWulf]

To be frank on the mods I think StarDock *might* be a better option. But their new multiplayer system is only started.

On the other hand this game would really benifit from being inside the "family of mods" that the source 2 engine looks like it might be able to provide.