NarwhalRider 18. Jan. um 14:14 Uhr
My 2 cents: Great ship building, frustrating combat
First off, I really love the shipbuilding element of the game. Saw KV on sale on Steam, and got intrigued. Watched a few videos of shipbuilding and gameplay, decided I would take the plunge and buy it. (Seeing that you could color the ships was the final thing that convinced me)

So far, I am satisfied with my purchase. The shipbuilder is fantastic! On Creative mode, you have so many options. You can really make your ship look how you want it to. While I'd like to see some more styles of pieces (different wings added, thinner tube-type hull pieces, more misc "flair" pieces, maybe a robotic arm or 2), the options are robust and varied. The dev team is really nailing the ship building aspect.

I do miss the ability to choose individual subsystem layouts for hull pieces. I understand why the change was made, but it would be cool to provide an option to assign subsystems to individual hull pieces. Also miss the crew rest/med bays slots, maybe they will bring them backin a later build, even though I have no idea yet what they are supposed to do. :)

As far as shipbuilding goes, my biggest gripe so far is with the weapons systems. they LOOK great, love the variety of turret styles. But all the guns all seem to have the same stats. Some have more guns then others, but they seem pretty interchangable. Would be nice if some guns had better damage while sacraficing accuracy or range, some have a higher RoF, some good for sniping. Subsystems could help this, but right now weapon subs are for armor plating only. Another feature that would be cool is showing the arc the gun turns on. Maybe some sort of yellow 180 degree curved line showing it's targeting ability, which would help with gun placement and orientation. It was difficult to tell which guns will follow the target, and which guns are completely fixed.

When you finally get out into space... Confusion. Distances can be difficult to gauge, so you end up flyng right by things. A feature I would like to see is auto jump out of hyperdrive when warping to a location, that would drop you very close to where you want to go. Missions don't seem to be properly implemented yet, and going to a planet is totally useless, unless you just feel like looking at the pretty planet.

Combat needs a a lot of work. Missed the feature in the demo where you could jump into a turret and let the ship go into autopilot, hope that makes it into the final version. Used mouse mode to try and shoot down enemy ships, which got annoying as my ship kept moving as well. Got the hang of firing in front of the ship to hit it, and got good enough that I could steadily hit a ship. Problem is, the guns are way too weak. I spent over 20 minutes trying to destroy a ship. I wish this was an exaggeration. The ships I was fighting had about 1000000 kinetic armor points, and my shots took forever to whittle that down. Even when I finally got the shields down, it would take multiple volleys to take even 1% off the ship's health. (I should also note that the ship I used is full of guns. Had a pair of quads on the front, along with 4 cannons, 2 fixed cannons, and a few other assorted guns, and lots of shots seemed to be hitting). Got to the point where I left the ship in autofire, engines off, while I got up to make coffee. Got back, and I had taken about 3% dmg off the ship.

Despite all the flaws, I really thing this game has great potential, and am excited to see it develop. I think I'll spend most of my time ship designing though, since actually playing the game isn't nearly as enjoyable yet.
Beiträge 1 - 15 von 16
< >
TrueSeraph 18. Jan. um 19:04 Uhr 
I agree with all of the above. I've just started playing; the game seems to have a lot of promise. I gave up early though, because the combat just makes me irritated. I want challenge, yes, but seriously, I can't get the turrets to hit much of anything. I'd like to seem some extra data on weapon characteristics too (e.g. Damage type, accuracy, speed).
Ozone 19. Jan. um 1:28 Uhr 
They removed the individual subsystem layouts for hull pieces? =(
dayyuummm
Kaypix 19. Jan. um 5:57 Uhr 
Hey everyone, just letting you know I saw the feedback on this thread.
Ozone: Yep we had to remove the individualized subsystem placement for hulls, since people who were building ships with something like 40 hull pieces were getting frustrated they had to go into subystems that many times. :(

TrueSeraph:
I understand that combat can be frustrating. In our latest patch (which we now rolled back due to extensive glitches) we actually fixed combat quite a bit, including the more frequent firing of the turrets and damage from them etc.

Narwhal Rider:
Thanks so much for your feedback, I'll respond to each problem individually.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
You can really make your ship look how you want it to. While I'd like to see some more styles of pieces (different wings added, thinner tube-type hull pieces, more misc "flair" pieces, maybe a robotic arm or 2), the options are robust and varied.
We only have one artist on our team at this point, but he has been working on different shaped modules in his spare time (what little he has of it). They'll be implemented later on, once we decide whether to add them as a group or individually etc.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
As far as shipbuilding goes, my biggest gripe so far is with the weapons systems. they LOOK great, love the variety of turret styles. But all the guns all seem to have the same stats. Some have more guns then others, but they seem pretty interchangable. Would be nice if some guns had better damage while sacraficing accuracy or range, some have a higher RoF, some good for sniping...Another feature that would be cool is showing the arc the gun turns on. Maybe some sort of yellow 180 degree curved line showing it's targeting ability, which would help with gun placement and orientation. It was difficult to tell which guns will follow the target, and which guns are completely fixed.
Right now, the weapons are all really straight forward, firing the same kinetic projectiles. However, we are going to be adding different damage types (energy etc.) which will affect the weapons differently based on their current stats. Right now, the goal is to get the weapons to fire consistently and relatively accurately. For challenges, you can try adding size 4/5 weapons to a size 2/3 ship, and those larger weapons (which fire much larger projectiles and do more damage) fire much more slowly than the size 1, 2 and 3 weapons.

That's a great idea of weapon placement, I'll mention it to the guys this week.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRier:
When you finally get out into space... Confusion. Distances can be difficult to gauge, so you end up flyng right by things. A feature I would like to see is auto jump out of hyperdrive when warping to a location, that would drop you very close to where you want to go. Missions don't seem to be properly implemented yet, and going to a planet is totally useless, unless you just feel like looking at the pretty planet.
Distances are measured first in km/s, and then m/s as you get closer. Click on the radar icon of any given object and it'll tell you the distance of the object just below. To warp to a specific target, right click on the radar icon and select "Warp To">"50 km" which will get you within 50 kilometers of the object without flying by it. Missions are not properly implemented yet, Rick our Workshop pro is working on those this week.

Finally, regarding combat, we know this is still frustrating, but we are working on making it more manageable. Also, when you go to fight an enemy ship, if you're in a light fighter or fighter class, try to make sure the enemy ship has no more than 2 red triangles as its radar icon, as anything with 3 makes it a destroyer class that anything shy of that level of weaponry would never be able to destroy.

I hope that answered everyones questions, if not, you know where to find me :)

~Kaypix
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Kaypix; 19. Jan. um 5:57 Uhr
Ozone 19. Jan. um 8:11 Uhr 
Kaypix: But what's the point of adding specific looking hull pieces(like power generators) and protect them with other hull pieces(like only armor-subsystem ones) so they don't get destroyed. I suggest add an option every time you create a galaxy. You can make ships with individual subsystem per hull piece, or you can make them all-in-one. Truth be told it added more depth to the game, since every module had it's very own role in the functioning of the ship.
Keep up the good work
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ozone; 19. Jan. um 11:55 Uhr
Kaypix 20. Jan. um 9:30 Uhr 
Ozone:
Thanks so much for your feedback. Our reasoning behind combining the module subsystems for the hull components was due to the overwhelming response we were getting from people upset at needing to add each individual component. I'll pass along the suggestion to the guys to have it set as a toggle, but as it would dramatically change the gameplay depending on what you select, it'd be almost like having two separate games to configure and program the physics and math to. Also, there's a performance hit for the individual hull piece scenario if there are too many hull pieces added on. The combined hull piece scenario alleviated this issue.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Kaypix; 20. Jan. um 9:31 Uhr
NarwhalRider 20. Jan. um 18:57 Uhr 
Thanks Kaypix, for being so active and attentive to your playerbase. I can tell you and your team really care about this game. Your answers were very helpful, never knew what the red triangles meant, for instance.

I realize now that the ship I was using was rocking T1 guns. Have definitely seen a difference moving up to guns a Tier or 2 bigger then the hull. Using freeform placement was also very useful, lets you do some things you can't do with node, and makes for better designs. Damn, it's fun to design ships. Maybe I'll upload a few for you guys to check out, and let me know if I'm putting too many guns on the ships, or not enough :)

Finally figured out how warp works as well. At first I thought it made you travel at a steady rate at the speed you chose, only recently figured out it lets you "jump" ahead 50, 100, 250 Km. Very handy, though I still wasn't able to catch up to the ships I was pursuing. Their runaway speed was greater then my speed with the kinetic field on, and when I turned it off to gain speed, I would end up blowing right by them. Also, sometimes the warp would "fizzle" when I tried it, Even after the green warp light was on. I guess this should go in the bugs section...

Like I said, I can definitely understand the reasoning for the change to combined hull space. Truthfully, it doesn't take much away from the game, though it was nice to be able to say, make the exterior walls of the ship more armored, and keep the generators/warp drive safe in the center. A possible solution would be to have a toggle that says "clone subsystems", which would duplicate hull subsystem layouts with subsequent pieces. So if you put down a certain hull piece, every piece of that type is automatically given the same loadout.

With the current linked hull system, when I place a generator, I have no idea which hull piece it is in. Is it randomly placed? And if so, does that mean if I get a piece of my hull blown off, I have a % chance of say, losing power, or having a hyperdrive taken out? So far still confused about this. If so, having a few smaller generators might be better then one big one.

A final question about weapons: The styles are quite varied, which I love. What would be nice would be a tooltip explaining differences between types. For example, the fixed cannons don't move, I get that. But some of the guns look like they should be able to fire in different arcs then others. For example, the dual and quad round guns that look like Anti-aircraft guns. When I started, I put a few on the front of my ship, pointing to the side or down, thinking that they could turn themselves up to fire forward as well. Still not sure if this works. While it's obvious that the tank turret looking gun, for example, probably can't fire directly above it's head, it seems like some guns can, or could. If you eventually include a firing arc to the display, knowing how much the turret can elevate it's guns would be very helpful.

Really enjoying this game despite the minor bugs. If you folks are looking for more artists, testers, or people to write lore/plots, I'm sure there are a bunch of people in the community who may be willing to help...
Lyrdian 20. Jan. um 22:59 Uhr 
My major concern with the combat is (as far as I can tell) a lack of faction colors/nametags/hailing etc etc. Most of my other concerns were already addressed here in this thread.

I seem to remember my guns autofiring on locked targets but none of the controls seem to activate any kind of autofire. And B doesnt unlock targets for some reason.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Lyrdian; 20. Jan. um 23:40 Uhr
mergele 21. Jan. um 3:16 Uhr 
@NarwhalRider
As far as I remember the subsystems are not longer "placed" in a module, but instead you got a %, which subsystem gets damaged. (Except cockpit, and engine, where you place the subsystems individually)
Froz 21. Jan. um 4:55 Uhr 
How about having the option to designate certain hull modules as "system modules"?

For example, shipbuilding would be the same as it is now with shared subsystem space, but a single hull module can optionally be designated as a "reactor" module, providing a bonus to the ship's reactor. This is purely optional, and of course that module becomes a significant weak point on the ship as well, opening up more interesting gameplay opportunities.

The difference is, instead of assigning subsystems for all modules, the player can now select one module off the completed ship and say "this is the reactor." Allow this to be done for other types of subsystems installed on the completed ship as well. All of this is optional; if system modules aren't designated, there is neither a bonus to the subsystem's performance, nor is there a weak spot on the ship where that subsystem can be heavily damaged.

I haven't been in game yet because I read the latest patch had issues, but to my understanding such a thing should at least be plausible.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Froz; 21. Jan. um 4:56 Uhr
Kaypix 21. Jan. um 5:37 Uhr 
Hey guys, just woke up but I see your posts, after coffee I'll respond to them all :)
Kaypix 21. Jan. um 9:06 Uhr 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
Thanks Kaypix, for being so active and attentive to your playerbase. I can tell you and your team really care about this game. Your answers were very helpful, never knew what the red triangles meant, for instance.
I'll be working on additional tutorials and information as I continue to get common questions about things like that. In the future I'll be creating a PDF of the various radar icons and subsystem modules available. Hopefully this will give people a one-stop shop (to to speak) to find what they are looking for information-wise.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
Finally figured out how warp works as well. At first I thought it made you travel at a steady rate at the speed you chose, only recently figured out it lets you "jump" ahead 50, 100, 250 Km. Very handy, though I still wasn't able to catch up to the ships I was pursuing. Their runaway speed was greater then my speed with the kinetic field on, and when I turned it off to gain speed, I would end up blowing right by them. Also, sometimes the warp would "fizzle" when I tried it, Even after the green warp light was on. I guess this should go in the bugs section...
When you enter MWD (MicroWarp Drive), your speed is usually capped at 4,000,000 m/s if you just go into it without a target (Shift + T manually initiates the MicroWarp Drive so you can just warp for the hell of it). Pressing T while in MicoWarp (even if you select a distance from a target initially) will manually drop you out of MicroWarp and have you resume your speed of 0 m/s (since your thrusters disengage when you go into warp, they're still disengaged when leaving MicroWarp).
The distances you see when you right click a target and select "Warp To">"50 km", 100 km, 150 km, 250 km etc. are the distances AWAY from that target, so if you're wanting to come in on your own power, maybe a little slower before finding out if there are enemies nearby, you might want to warp to a further distance than 50km (which would get you to the heart of the event / sector and at that point you're in trouble if it's surrounded by badguys).
If you're not catching the enemies, that means they have more engines than you do. Circumenvent this by turning off your kinetic field temporarily (press T), accelerating until their distance JUST starts to drop (it'll be like 25m away, once it's down to 20m or less, you're gaining on them). Hit Shift +F which turns off your engines, but will allow you to continue floating at your current speed (rather than keep accelerating, which is why you end up passing your target). Once you're within 10m of the target, turn on your Kinetic Field again (press T again) and you'll come screeching to a halt, basically, but in perfect range to start shooting them.
If trying to initiate MWD doesn't work but you can tell that your MWD is cooled down (green MWD icon instead of red MWD icon), make sure your Kinetic Field is turned ON (see a blue shimmer around your ship). Your field must be on to initiate MWD.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
A possible solution would be to have a toggle that says "clone subsystems", which would duplicate hull subsystem layouts with subsequent pieces. So if you put down a certain hull piece, every piece of that type is automatically given the same loadout.
This isn't possible because there are so many different sizes available for hull pieces, each has a different capacity, so you couldn't clone a size 5's subsystems to a size 1, it doesn't have the capacity.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
With the current linked hull system, when I place a generator, I have no idea which hull piece it is in. Is it randomly placed? And if so, does that mean if I get a piece of my hull blown off, I have a % chance of say, losing power, or having a hyperdrive taken out? So far still confused about this. If so, having a few smaller generators might be better then one big one.
That's basically correct. For each subsystem you have in your combined hull group, there is X% chance of that subsystem being damaged when the hull is hit. Having 5 size 1 armors for example would increase the odds of an armor piece being hit instead of one of the 2 reactors or 1 Jump drive etc.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von NarwhalRider:
A final question about weapons: The styles are quite varied, which I love. What would be nice would be a tooltip explaining differences between types.
The tooltips ingame will be changing once everything is finalized (all the weapon types, damage types, armor classes etc.) and they'll include arcs of where the weapons can aim, what kind of damage they do etc.

I hope that answers your questions, on to the next comment :)
Kaypix 21. Jan. um 9:11 Uhr 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lyridian:
My major concern with the combat is (as far as I can tell) a lack of faction colors/nametags/hailing etc etc. Most of my other concerns were already addressed here in this thread.
I seem to remember my guns autofiring on locked targets but none of the controls seem to activate any kind of autofire. And B doesnt unlock targets for some reason.
Faction names will show up in the lower right corner when you kill a ship, and enemies are indicated with red icons rather than white icons (which are neutral/positive NPCs). We'll be having it so you can see faction names etc. once we have the finalized group of factions for final release.
Your guns will fire if you lock on a target (click on them, press C, the halo around them turns red) and then press 1 to autofire. Your guns will only fire when they can track the trajectory of the enemy ship. This will be fixed in our patch that we reverted last weekend by allowing your guns the ability to fire with a wider "margin of error" before ignoring the enemy ships' trajectories. To release a locked target, use shift + C, if you're locked onto multiple targets, use the F# keys to select a group, then shift+C each time to drop each group.
Kaypix 21. Jan. um 9:28 Uhr 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Corian:
How about having the option to designate certain hull modules as "system modules"?

For example, shipbuilding would be the same as it is now with shared subsystem space, but a single hull module can optionally be designated as a "reactor" module, providing a bonus to the ship's reactor. This is purely optional, and of course that module becomes a significant weak point on the ship as well, opening up more interesting gameplay opportunities.

The difference is, instead of assigning subsystems for all modules, the player can now select one module off the completed ship and say "this is the reactor." Allow this to be done for other types of subsystems installed on the completed ship as well. All of this is optional; if system modules aren't designated, there is neither a bonus to the subsystem's performance, nor is there a weak spot on the ship where that subsystem can be heavily damaged.

I haven't been in game yet because I read the latest patch had issues, but to my understanding such a thing should at least be plausible.
Thanks for your question and feedback. What you're suggesting is simply not practical at this point. It would require completely rewriting the module structures of the ship to have different characteristics on a case by case basis, and would allow too much variance. If one component is changed, the math changes for all remaining subsystems / hull pieces. And I assure you, once a person can manually assign a subsystem to a single hull component, they'll want to be able to do it to as many they want, but only until they get tired of adding individual pieces, then will want to combine the rest. This would require multi-selection of components and individual variables/limits, which we aren't looking at doing at this point of the game.
NarwhalRider 21. Jan. um 19:49 Uhr 
Thanks again for the responses, your tip about pursuit is helpful. Didn't realize the ship would maintain momentum like that. I was turning on the kinetic field too soon, and wasn't using Shift + f first. I'll have to try that tonight.

Thanks for answering the subsystem question as well. At least now I understand how it works. Makes it worth it to throw a few small armor pieces into the hull. I know you mentioned that cloning wasn't an option on different sized pieces, but what about pieces in the same tier? Like if I put down 5 of the same size and type hull pieces, it could clone the subsystems into the rest of them perhaps?

It is also worth noting that there's an occasional glitch where 2 pieces of the same type and tier end up having different amounts of subspace room (16 vs 32, for example, on 2 of the same engine).

Finally, will there be an option to directly control turrets again? I was thinking it might be cool to have a subsystem for turrets that you could place into a turret that would allow you to assume direct control. You would only have a set number of them, perhaps, which would limit the number of turrets you can control (so you're not cycling through the 30+ guns on your ship to find the right one), and would allow the shipbuilder to chose the turret or 2 they would want control of. Not sure how feasable this is, but I really liked the idea of being able to jump into the gunners seat during a firefight and have your crew pilot. Maybe there can be a subsystem for your C&C that gives bonuses to "autopilot" mode, even.

Imagine having a quest where you have to tow a damaged vessel back to a starbase, for example. The ship is damaged, and can't take much more of a beating. Your speed is lower since you have to tow the other ship. Maybe your kinetic field is a little weaker, too, or you stretch it over the other ship, so it now has to protect both ships. Out of nowhere, small fighters warp in and start firing! You set your course to the base, and let autopilot take over as you jump into your turret and fight off swarms of ships trying to take out you and the vessel you are towing. After a big firefight, you hold them off long enough to get to the starbase, which chases any remaining enemy ships off with a blast from one of its huge cannons. The player gains influence with the faction they are helping, and possibly a new ship part. Maybe from then on, you are always welcome at that starbase, and recieve a discount. And maybe that faction you just fought against is now after you instead of the guy you saved...

Just tossing out ideas.

Eve_Wake 22. Jan. um 13:59 Uhr 
I am so thankful for the sub system patch it makes making a dreadnough take less then forever now
Beiträge 1 - 15 von 16
< >
Pro Seite: 15 30 50
Geschrieben am: 18. Jan. um 14:14 Uhr
Beiträge: 16