Morosi 2013년 1월 22일 오전 5시 41분
Is a lawsuit possible?
These guys need to be punished. I'm pretty sure that they have already broken the law on numerous occasions. The last time I checked you can in serious s**** for falsely advertising a product and changing the TOS, to disaallow refunds. The sad truth is that Sergei Titov and Hammerpoint have made millions on this travesty of a game. If they are not stopped, then they will do it again and again on future projects. I bet Sergei is laughing at us right now, with enough money in his bank account to get another project up and running, abandoning the war z so he can work on it.
Is there realy nothing that can be done to protect consumers, so they don't fall into this trap again? There is no doubt that consumers were mislead when buying this product, especially if you were an early adopter. I have no problem with bad games, but this is not what this is about. It's a about a company intentionally deceiving customers, and comminitting fraudelent activities.
Morosi님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 1월 22일 오전 5시 45분
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Hellfiremaaan 2013년 1월 22일 오전 5시 59분 
See, whilst I agree with you on some points the problem is they've made so many shell companies no one can be held liable.

For example, Hammerpoint Interactive are an LLC (limited Liability company) so you can only sue them for their actual assets, most of the money the game makes probably goes straight to Arkos (the company which owns Hammerpoint) and I would suspect the only thing Hammerpoint actually owns is the game itself and/or licensing for the engine (which is proven to be owned by Arkos) I doubt Hammerpoint even has any cash funds, the staff will probably be paid by Arkos, it's just a shell.
Morosi 2013년 1월 22일 오전 6시 38분 
Hellfiremaaan님이 먼저 게시:
See, whilst I agree with you on some points the problem is they've made so many shell companies no one can be held liable.

For example, Hammerpoint Interactive are an LLC (limited Liability company) so you can only sue them for their actual assets, most of the money the game makes probably goes straight to Arkos (the company which owns Hammerpoint) and I would suspect the only thing Hammerpoint actually owns is the game itself and/or licensing for the engine (which is proven to be owned by Arkos) I doubt Hammerpoint even has any cash funds, the staff will probably be paid by Arkos, it's just a shell.
so in retrospect there's nothing that can be done? They just get away with it? The sad thing is that if's nothing is done now, then they will keep on doing it in the future, making more and more shell companies to protect themselves in case of any legal action.
razberrie 2013년 1월 22일 오전 6시 41분 
it's the capitalist way .... this type of business practice has been around for a long time
Hellfiremaaan 2013년 1월 22일 오전 6시 50분 
MoXMorosi님이 먼저 게시:
so in retrospect there's nothing that can be done? They just get away with it? The sad thing is that if's nothing is done now, then they will keep on doing it in the future, making more and more shell companies to protect themselves in case of any legal action.

Pretty much, This isn't the first time Good Ol'Sergey has done something like this, it's just the first time it's garnered so much publicity
mr bigdad 2013년 1월 22일 오전 6시 58분 
You cant do anything against them with sueing. But we did alot by taking it down from STEAM and making the world know this crap game. Alot of people may still buy it, seeking to see whats going on, but the sensible people wont. So, only dumbasses and morons will still buy it and the smart ones will move on. Not to say that the ones that fell for the lies are bad. They didnt know untill now. The ones that bought it after the news are the ones that arent smart.
Hellfiremaaan 2013년 1월 22일 오전 7시 01분 
mr bigdad님이 먼저 게시:
You cant do anything against them with sueing. But we did alot by taking it down from STEAM and making the world know this crap game. Alot of people may still buy it, seeking to see whats going on, but the sensible people wont. So, only dumbasses and morons will still buy it and the smart ones will move on. Not to say that the ones that fell for the lies are bad. They didnt know untill now. The ones that bought it after the news are the ones that arent smart.

Yet he still walks away with a big fat pay check,
mr bigdad 2013년 1월 22일 오전 7시 05분 
yes and that is the bad thing! But with these kindof things, he will run into the wrong person and steal from him and that will be his end.
Hellfiremaaan 2013년 1월 22일 오전 7시 40분 
Dude, you sound like you've already put a hit out on him, Got Jimmy "the snitch" to whack him ;)


(Been watching gangster movies this weekend)
VaultTechie 2013년 1월 22일 오전 8시 16분 
If you paid by paypal you might have some recourse. I have escalated my claim to receive my money back.
razberrie 2013년 1월 22일 오전 8시 32분 
Hellfiremaaan님이 먼저 게시:
.... Got Jimmy "the snitch" to whack him ;)....

'Buckwheats' for everyone !!!!!!!


.
Kedaro 2013년 1월 22일 오전 10시 39분 
Yeop you could lawsuit this all to hell, you could pay $100,000 for a lawyer to go get your $10-$50 back(something you can do without a lawyer) congratulations you can have this... fail.
Hanging Bunny 2013년 1월 22일 오전 10시 57분 
Kedaro님이 먼저 게시:
Yeop you could lawsuit this all to hell, you could pay $100,000 for a lawyer to go get your $10-$50 back(something you can do without a lawyer) congratulations you can have this... fail.
That is not how a class action lawsuit works. A large group gets to gather under one law firm who sues for a large amount which is portioned out so everyone gets their share back. Unfortunately what has been done here is in a gray legal zone but still technically legal.|It is ethically repugnant and should be made an example of, but scam artists have been doing this stuff for as long as commerce has existed. Look up the definition of Snake Oil Salesmen.
Stalinator 2013년 1월 22일 오전 10시 59분 
The time, effort, and money required to take on this lawsuit wouldn't be worth your while. I know, everyone is upset and wants to get revenge, but this guy is a professional grab-and-dash artist. He figures if he can knick $10-15 at a time from a few thousand people and abandon the project, all the better, and there really isn't much you can do about it.

The other point is there's nothing stopping him from jumping ship and heading back to Russia anyway, where any civil ruling in the states has no meaning. I remember this being brough up before, and someone mentioning, "Well he better be careful where he travels, because our allies will extradite him.." and let me just reassure you that no, nobody will extradite him over a civil case.

Basically, the guy is in the clear. There is little to nothing you can do about it now, and even if you could it's not worth the hassle to simply prove a point. I think he understands better this time that people are quite ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and are less likely to put up with his nonsense in the future, and he's sufficiently alienated enough people that his possible future attempts at doing this are going to be quite unprofitable.

Congratulations, you've done all you can do, and he'll certainly be feeling this sting later. Relax.
Hanging Bunny 2013년 1월 22일 오전 11시 09분 
Joe43302님이 먼저 게시:
The time, effort, and money required to take on this lawsuit wouldn't be worth your while. I know, everyone is upset and wants to get revenge, but this guy is a professional grab-and-dash artist. He figures if he can knick $10-15 at a time from a few thousand people and abandon the project, all the better, and there really isn't much you can do about it.

The other point is there's nothing stopping him from jumping ship and heading back to Russia anyway, where any civil ruling in the states has no meaning. I remember this being brough up before, and someone mentioning, "Well he better be careful where he travels, because our allies will extradite him.." and let me just reassure you that no, nobody will extradite him over a civil case.

Basically, the guy is in the clear. There is little to nothing you can do about it now, and even if you could it's not worth the hassle to simply prove a point. I think he understands better this time that people are quite ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and are less likely to put up with his nonsense in the future, and he's sufficiently alienated enough people that his possible future attempts at doing this are going to be quite unprofitable.

Congratulations, you've done all you can do, and he'll certainly be feeling this sting later. Relax.
Based on interviews done with him over the last decade I think he honestly doesn't see what he does as bad. You see this in people with large egos, it sometimes manifests in delusional or sociopathic individuals. He has created a zone around himself and filled it with sycophants and hangers on who praise him so he can continue to feel that he is in the right and everyone is persecuting him for being (in his own words) an "awesome developer". He may think that everyone is jealous of his success, or just not care. Titov reminds me of the shlock film maker Roger Corman, or those high finance people on Wall Street who scam a grandmother out of her life savings because of some sense of entitlement (Bernie Madoff).
The only thing we can do is make sure people are aware of Titovs history and actions so we can try to prevent this from happening again.
mr bigdad 2013년 1월 22일 오전 11시 25분 
Hellfiremaaan님이 먼저 게시:
Dude, you sound like you've already put a hit out on him, Got Jimmy "the snitch" to whack him ;)


(Been watching gangster movies this weekend)

hahaha, love those movies! Heheeh! ;)
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