duke 3D DOS vs duke 3D megaton

[General Bozza]

wow so good to see Duke 3D still being worked on. I personally love the megaton edition!

what do you guys think is a better game? Duke 3d in DOS or the megaton edition?

The mouse is such an awesome improvement in megaton! Love the smooth texture mode and the new menu and the high res art and video at the beginning.

the death match is an awesome experience in megaton.

One thing i noticed is that for whatever reason the DOS version is more scary! A must for single player imho. Do you guys agree? What makes megaton less scary?

Edit: played both versions quite a lot now. dos version cant compare to megaton. Megaton is just so way ahead. Graphics, controls and general feel is much more enjoyable.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

for me, I like the Megaton Edition better, due to it having the free-look feature for the mouse (something that I was unable to activate in the original DOS version)

[ReBoot]

Megaton OFC. The DOS version is pure nostalgia, but nothing else.

[Sénateur Palpmapine]

Megaton is better ! It's a real pleasure to see that they just add the multiplayer ! I'm gonna kick some asses in DukeMatch !

[AN BIFFED ELF!!!!]

I never liked DOS Atomic for what it did to the kick and other things (the new one liners weren't that great either), but Megaton helps overcome a lot of that kick loss... so yeah megaton.

I'm betting you're attributing the scary placebo effect to COLORMAP paletted shading precision loss.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

AN UPSET の投稿を引用：

I never liked DOS Atomic for what it did to the kick and other things (the new one liners weren't that great either), but Megaton helps overcome a lot of that kick loss... so yeah megaton.

I'm betting you're attributing the scary placebo effect to COLORMAP paletted shading precision loss.

speaking of kicks, it's a bit of a downer, that the Megaton Edition didn't include the famous "double-kick" glitch that was originally seen in the old DOS version before it was patched.

[General Bozza]

oh man yea i was just thinking about the double kick glitch!!!! that was awesome!!!!!

what did the DOS atomic edition do to the kick? I think i owned the 96 DOS atomic UK retail disc version.

Personally i prefer the megaton edition by a mile. it just feels like a totally new game. The feel of the game is just so awesome with the hardware gfx and proper mouse support. Oh yea and the multiplayer is just amazing!

What is this COLORMAP precision loss that you're speaking about?
Maybe the DOS version was scarier for a number of reasons. Walk was on by default. The game was darker in the corners. And importantly the background sound was a little quieter than the game fx sounds. I can barely hear the "kill me" sound in the secret area of the first level. But it gets a lot better in the second level.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

General Bozza の投稿を引用：

oh man yea i was just thinking about the double kick glitch!!!! that was awesome!!!!!

what did the DOS atomic edition do to the kick? I think i owned the 96 DOS atomic UK retail disc version.

Personally i prefer the megaton edition by a mile. it just feels like a totally new game. The feel of the game is just so awesome with the hardware gfx and proper mouse support. Oh yea and the multiplayer is just amazing!

What is this COLORMAP precision loss that you're speaking about?
Maybe the DOS version was scarier for a number of reasons. Walk was on by default. The game was darker in the corners. And importantly the background sound was a little quieter than the game fx sounds. I can barely hear the "kill me" sound in the secret area of the first level. But it gets a lot better in the second level.

from what I can remember, around the time the old Atomic Edition came out (replacing the older "Plutonium Pak"), it was given some patches a short time later, and one of those said patches took out the double-kick glitch.

But in my honest opinion, that should've been left in here. Because having seen several videos of it, had me in stitches.

[General Bozza]

i was lucky to have the glitch inside my atomic uk retail edition :)
or maybe i am confusing it for some pirated copy i also had?

[AN BIFFED ELF!!!!]

General Bozza の投稿を引用：

What is this COLORMAP precision loss that you're speaking about?

Duke Nukem 3D uses 256 indexed and paletted colors. To do shading fast and efficient, it relied on a lookup table to shift the lighting (this same lookup table also allowed certain colors to glow like signs and pigcop eyes). When your lighting down 32 shades (or did duke use 64?), in a palette of 256 colors, you're definitely going to have loss by color approximation. To not have loss for those amounts of shades would mean turning to 18-bit (bitshifted to 24) or 24-bit color. (15-16bit is heavily lossy)

[General Bozza]

AN UPSET の投稿を引用：

General Bozza の投稿を引用：

What is this COLORMAP precision loss that you're speaking about?

Duke Nukem 3D uses 256 indexed and paletted colors. To do shading fast and efficient, it relied on a lookup table to shift the lighting (this same lookup table also allowed certain colors to glow like signs and pigcop eyes). When your lighting down 32 shades (or did duke use 64?), in a palette of 256 colors, you're definitely going to have loss by color approximation. To not have loss for those amounts of shades would mean turning to 18-bit (bitshifted to 24) or 24-bit color. (15-16bit is heavily lossy)

thank you for the excellent explanation AN UPSET. That was a delight to learn about!
It sounds like that contributed to the scariness.

In other words the limitations made the game even scarier.
I have played some more levels of the new megaton edition, and i must say it does get a lot scarier! Maybe the loud music in the background of the first level just makes it less scary than the DOS edition.

edit: yea that colormap precision loss is the main one though. amazing

[AN BIFFED ELF!!!!]

It's also nearly impossible to simulate within a pixel shader as well since having a full 256-color palette to look up to would cause severe shader cache issues.

[MikeNorvak]

EDuke32 ;)

[Retro]

MikeNorvak の投稿を引用：

EDuke32 ;)

You have a very valid point there!
But, between Megaton and Dos Duke, Megaton wins at a walk for me. Same as comparing the old pixelicious Doom 1 and 2 {as included with Doom 3 BFG} with a port like GZDoom. The Dos versions are just a trip down memory lane, but I'm not changing my address.

[Retro]

General Bozza の投稿を引用：

i was lucky to have the glitch inside my atomic uk retail edition :)
or maybe i am confusing it for some pirated copy i also had?

I'm sure I came across a user map a while back where the author had hacked that in. I wonder what is holding Duke up? I guess he is all man. :)
I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

[Micky C]

MikeNorvak was just telling AN UPSET, that it is in fact NOT impossible to use pixel shaders to reproduce the classic shading effect using pixel shaders, because eduke32 already does exactly that.