Communist Greyscale Sep 10, 2013 @ 6:34am
Explain why this game is good.
I have my opinions on it, took about 2 hours to finish. I wan't to hear someone elses opinion and someone who's not obssesed with TB (who seems to think it's game of the year. . . what.)
In my opinion
- Average Gameplay
- Nice visuals and style
-Awfull execution of story telling
-Mediocer story
-Interesting singleplayer co-op experiment
Was this worth my 15 dollers. Honestly not really. I've found Better storry telling in Visual novels for free. So as for saying the game can rely on it's story, it can't it's the weakest part of the game. The most reddeming part of the game was the interesting visual styles
More then willing to go into more detail if required.
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the gUm Sep 10, 2013 @ 7:07am 
i was definitely influenced by TB, otherwise i wouldn't bought it.
i agree: awesome visuals and atmosphere, but the rest was average at best.
was it worth 15 dollar? no
do i think TB's video was bought? yes
GrumpyArab Sep 10, 2013 @ 7:16am 
Originally posted by the gum:
do i think TB's video was bought? yes

The fact that he didnt critisize the lack of video/audio options and being unable to skip cutscenese makes it smell the more fishy to me.
grumbel Sep 10, 2013 @ 7:59am 
I doubt that the review was bought, the game might just hit a note for him. But yeah, I agree with Greyscale, the game was nothing special. It felt like something out of a PS2 era bargain bin in both style and execution.

It's not awful, but it's essentially "push sticks forward, do switch puzzle, repeat". The first hour is really boring and repetitive and only in the second hour it gets mildly interesting as the game starts mixing up mechanics a little. The graphics can look good in a few scenes when the camera pans lower, but overall they are pretty boring, as you just look down on your characters most of the time. The character themselves look really generic, animation isn't good and they just don't look very interesting at all. Controls can also be a little unresponsive, you get used to it, but especially in the beginning it's annoying.

As for the story, I found the it completely forgettable, as it has absolutely no flow to it. You just jump from one random set piece to the next without any real context or connection. The only thing that makes the game "special" is the end, but that is also completely predictable and again, like anything else, doesn't have any real flow to it, it's not justified by anything else that came before it. It's just some event to make the game look all artsy and emotional.

The game also has a dramatic lack of atmosphere. Similar games like Limbo, Journey or Ico excel when it comes to atmosphere, but Brothers feels just like some generic video game fairy tale.

The game really isn't worth the hype, not even close. The best part of the game is that it's just 2:30 long, so it's over before it starts to get to annoying.

To anyone who actually loved the game: Did you actually love the game itself or did you just rate the game so high because the ending made you teary-eyed? I can understand why some people might fall for that kind of emotionally manipulative ending, but the rest of the game really doesn't have anything to justify the hype.
Paint Sep 10, 2013 @ 8:13am 
If you think that the most interesting part of this game is the visuals, then I'm sorry you have missed the entire point of the game, and for that I can understand why you don't feel that it was worth your money.

"...an astonishing exploration of both the relationship within a family, and the relationship between a player and the controller. It would be diving deeply into the pool of spoilers to reveal how, but there’s a moment in this game where simply pressing a trigger is astonishingly moving. Not the action it produces on screen – the action of pressing the trigger itself." Rock Paper Shotgun

But in order for this to work you need to develop that emotional attachment over time, interacting with the world with the two boys, seeing their relationship develop. Rushing through the easy puzzles to get to the end of the game wont work. The more you interact with their world, the stronger their imaginary bond between themselves becomes, and also the bond between yourself and the characters, which means the greater the effect when the characters ultimately break free from the pixels of your monitor and are imbued emotionally into the controller that is physically in your hands.

No other game has done this. It doesn't hapen by accident, the game was designed around it. It is both innovative and genius, and shows a true understanding of the potential of the interactive nature of the platform. In a time when triple AAA titles are mimicking hollywood movies for their story delivery and emotional impact, this game firmly grabs hold of the idiosyncrasies of the medium and celebrates them.

That is why this game is good.

Originally posted by grumbel:
To anyone who actually loved the game: Did you actually love the game itself or did you just rate the game so high because the ending made you teary-eyed? I can understand why some people might fall for that kind of emotionally manipulative ending, but the rest of the game really doesn't have anything to justify the hype.
Interesting angle here, and I agree there is a big difference.
I'd just like to say this: I don't love this game because it made me cry, I love this game because of HOW it made me cry.
Last edited by Paint; Sep 10, 2013 @ 8:16am
grumbel Sep 10, 2013 @ 8:23am 
Originally posted by Paint:
"...an astonishing exploration of both the relationship within a family,
What "astonishing exploration"? Mother drowns in the intro for no reason, father gets ill for no reason. And then you get one dream sequence with the mother and the father goes fishing once. That's all there is, there is nothing even remotely that I would call "astonishing exploration". And those brothers have no development what so ever till the very end.

and the relationship between a player and the controller.
You know those games that have moments where your controls get reversed and you fumble around trying to not walk into the wrong direction? That's how this game makes you feel. Just random fumbling around and here and there letting a brother drop to his death because you mixed up left and right.

It would be diving deeply into the pool of spoilers to reveal how, but there’s a moment in this game where simply pressing a trigger is astonishingly moving.
Can anybody fill me in which that would be? The dirt at the end?
Lordnine Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:01am 
I feel like whether or not you get the full effect of the game may hinge on if you have strong real life connections with a brother and maybe also a father. I don’t have either of those and the game really did nothing for me. I have been emotionally moved by many games but this one left me in the cold on that.

I do think the language barrier attributed to the problem for me. Since you never learn more than rudimentary things about the characters (although, having now finished the game it is more than my initial impressions) I never felt connected to either of them.

A lot of people have gone crazy over the game making you “play” through emotional parts of the game I find it actually takes away from the experience because it is not controlled enough. If I accidentally walk into a tree during an emotional scene it just takes me out of the experience and reminds me I’m playing a game.

Overall I don’t think it’s a bad game, just not one that deserves as much critical attention as it is getting.
Paul Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:09am 
First explain why you think this game is bad :)
Paint Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:16am 
Originally posted by Lordnine:
A lot of people have gone crazy over the game making you “play” through emotional parts of the game I find it actually takes away from the experience because it is not controlled enough. If I accidentally walk into a tree during an emotional scene it just takes me out of the experience and reminds me I’m playing a game.

Overall I don’t think it’s a bad game, just not one that deserves as much critical attention as it is getting.
I think the fact that it makes you do it, instead of watching a cinematic of someone doing it(because even if it's a cinematic of your character, it's not you doing it) makes it feel real. I think inside most peoples heads when it became apparent that they were going to have to do it was "oh god no, you're not going to make me do it, are you?"

And what you said about real life relationships may have some truth to it. It would be interesting to see if people have similar relations in real life or not and whether they engaged with the characters.

Last edited by Paint; Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:17am
Lordnine Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:33am 
I could kind of see that if the game wasn’t 3rd person. As it is though, I’m not either of the brothers, I’m just watching them. Their actions only really affect me if they are believable and if I like/care about them or maybe if I can relate to them.

Amnesia: The Dark Descent on the other hand did exactly what you mention. The game was first person which made ME the character and it utilized the ability to interact with pretty much everything in the environment. At a couple points in the game you are forced to torture people and it did have a greater impact because I was the one who was doing it.
Paint Sep 10, 2013 @ 9:46am 
Well this is interesting. 1st person vs 3rd person is more than a gameplay choice, it's a philosophic question "Who am I?". Are you, the player, supposed to be the character, or are you some omni presence, controlling things, or are you merely a voyeur, watching events. Also it begs the question, would Brothers have been more successful as a first person game? It would definitely be a completely different experience. I got the feeling right from the start that the game was weighted more towards empathy with young brother, the ending confirmed this. If someone were to ask me, even though I am controlling both, which one am I? I would have said young brother. Two reasons for this, the intro is viewed form his perspective. And also the fact that my right hand, which is my dominant, contols young brother. I believe these both are intentional design choices to make you feel more "inside" young brother.

Now, I personally am the opposite to you, I find it easier to empathize with a character in 3rd person, as I can see the character I am supposed to be. In 1st person games, i find it difficult because of the detachment from the world, the computer inputs and outputs act like a barrier, it feels like you're viewing the distant world through a window.

It brings up intersting discussions however and I think Brothers asks this very question, when you control 2 people, which one are you? are you both ? Or are you neither ?
Last edited by Paint; Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:23am
Lordnine Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:09am 
In Brothers I never felt like I was a character. The younger brother did not behave in ways that I would have as a child and he was not fleshed out enough on his own to be a character I cared about. As you put it, I was just an omni presence and they were basically my puppets.

The difference of 1st vs 3rd person for me is that I don’t necessarily emphasize with a first person character, I am the character. I have a close connection to the people I am interacting with and see their problems through my own eyes. That means that what they are going through, I am going through. When it comes to doing something awful (Amnesia) it has a greater effect on me because I would not willingly do the action in real life. Putting a character between me and the action means I am not directly responsible and also not as emotionally attached.

Actually, the same thing happens (to a lesser extent) in Brothers during the giants battle field section. If I had been forced to do some of those things in first person they would have had a greater impact on me. As it was, seeing “characters” carry out the actions gave me a sense of detachment from the actions. (I’m being vague on purpose incase people haven’t played it)
Last edited by Lordnine; Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:10am
Wesker Frank Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:09am 
Originally posted by grumbel:
I doubt that the review was bought, the game might just hit a note for him.
^ this

Sure he review games and talk about their problems all the time.... But why couldn't he love a game once in a while?
ZeroHistory Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:17am 
Interesting thread. My two cents will be - wildly innovative gameplay, the game is raving fresh. Another one is attention to small details - the brothers interact with objects/people differently, this is sweet.

But yes, dubious storytelling and the story is mediocre at best. Thought I was the only one who thought so. I would call the game overpriced, but the PC release costs the same as the console game so everything seems legit.
Last edited by ZeroHistory; Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:20am
Philly Wonken Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:23am 
I hate how pretentious this game is, it tries so hard to be "artistic" and "original". But it doesn't have a story that's all that interesting and the level desing is very artificial. None of the places you visit feel real, and that's because they're all designed for the gameplay. Like the bridge at the very beggining; why is that bridge a sliding platform? Wouldn't it make more sense if it was a simple bridge? And the whole game is like that, just gameplay contrivances. And because of that, the whole "controlling both characters at once" feels like some cheap gimmick.

This game is made by the same people who made Escape From Butcher Bay, and that game was the complete opposite of that, everything felt so natural and immersive. None of it felt contrived or like it was just there to make the gameplay more interesting (and failing miserably at doing so).

The big irony here is that a game where you play as Vin Diesel punching people to death in a high security prison, is actually a much greater work of art than a game where you play as two brothers going on a perilous journey trough a fantastical environement.
ZeroHistory Sep 10, 2013 @ 10:28am 
Originally posted by Philly Wonken:
The big irony here is that a game where you play as Vin Diesel punching people to death in a high security prison, is actually a much greater work of art than a game where you play as two brothers going on a perilous journey trough a fantastical environement.

Is it? I loved Escape from Butcher Bay, but to me it felt rather as a very well-executed, but nevertheless pretty generic action romp. Immersive, yes, a quality game, but barely a work of art imho.
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Date Posted: Sep 10, 2013 @ 6:34am
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