Ys I > General Discussions > Topic Details
LeChirurgien Nov 11, 2013 @ 1:47am
This final boss is a joke
I like d the game so far, but this final boss is a ♥♥♥♥ing nightmare.
I know he is killable, but this type of boss is NOT FUN.
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Titler Nov 11, 2013 @ 12:20pm 
He's beatable even on Nightmare; the Ys games are closer to a bullet-hell shooter at times though and you need to get into the pattern of rigid pattern learning to beat some of them however.

The Xseed forums are down at the moment, but I wrote up a guide there when they are back which may help;

http://xseedgames.com/forums/showthread.php?3721-Ys-Chronicles-...-Beating-Dark-Fact-On-Nightmare-A-Guide.

But make sure you have the Cleria, not the Battle Items equipped, are L50, and have er... I forget, but a specific ring on :P
noname Nov 11, 2013 @ 8:59pm 
It's the best boss in video games I know. Because he test all your skills and wits and summarize all your experience of the game. Not only you need to devise strategy to beat him, you need to know his weakness and use it. And it's weakness revealed not in that battle, how most other bosses works, you actually need to play a game to know it.
Tacred Nov 12, 2013 @ 12:11am 
I thought rings dont work in boss fights? I always get boxed in when I get him down to like 1/10th health. Pretty much comes down to luck in my opinion.
Titler Nov 14, 2013 @ 8:20am 
Xseed forums still not back, alas... I'm trying to find the screenshot guide I did elsewhere but no luck so far.

If you do a Google Image Search for "Aron Ys Dark Fact Nightmare" the first two thumbnails that show are from my thread. Unfortunately they're too small to see there to be truly accurate, but the red lines are where he moves too. When they forums are back you'll see the larger versions!

Anyway, the trick is to run diagonally with him when he rises from bottom left to top right and get a row of hits in; You should be able to kill him in 3-4 diagonal runs. He steps 1 square to the left each time he cycles around so you know exactly where he will be, you just need to avoid trapping yourself as he bounces elsewhere, and try and stay out of the fire until he comes back. Tag him a few times on the very edges of the map only so as not to leave you with no where to run...
Qtaku Nov 14, 2013 @ 1:40pm 
Kol Jan 5 @ 12:58am 
Personally, I found all the bosses in this game to be terrible. There didn't seem to be a middle ground with them.

They were either so easy it was boring... the mantis or the worm for example. Hell... the worm never even fully came out of the wall before I killed him.

Or they were dumb luck style hard. The final boss didn't feel like a fun fight or a challenge. It was pointless to try to dodge the bullets so it just came down to doing the above mentioned diagonal attack. Took me several tries to beat him. I either ended up getting boxed in which was lame or what happened 90% of the time... the square he opened in the ground was underneath me and I would just instantly die.

The bat boss was also pretty much a dumb luck fight. Took me several times to beat him even though I knew exactly what I needed to do because he'd either stay in swarm for ages or worse... stay in the swarm and have it expanded, to where you had no way to avoid, it for ages. The time I beat him he was almost too easy. He appeared in and out of swarm constantly and only once expanded to where I couldn't walk around the swarm. Too much of it came down to the dumb luck on what he randomly would choose to do.

If others disagree with me on this that's fine. They're entitled to their own opinions, but I still feel the bosses were quite possibly the worst in any game I've played.

Actaully the game as a whole seems quite lackluster today. I can understand it being a nostalgia thing and why it would have been an impressive game in its time, but it really doesn't seem to have aged well.

Graphically its good. Sprites that are well done can stand the test of time quite well and this game did great in that regard.

The performance is great too. The controls are very responsive and the game played well in the early parts.

Unforunately only having 10 levels you can gain and nothing except your first batch of equipment to spend money on it made any combat with regular enemies pointless and unrewarding. Once I had my gear and 10 levels I just avoided things when I could. There wasn't any incent or sense of accomplishment in beating them. Even doing this I still maxed out the money at the end of the game.

Honestly the game got off to a great start and I was loving it... then the tower happened. The game went from being interesting and fun to 25 bland repetive floors of bumping through things and fighting bad bosses. The tower killed the fun flow of the game. It seemed to be going at a fast pace and didn't give you a chance to get bored... until the tower.

Overall I enjoyed it, but then again I love old games and games like this, but I certainly couldn't recommend it to others.
Hot Tramp Jan 5 @ 9:27am 
What level were you even at that the centipede (not a worm) never had time to come out of the wall?
Pictimos (mantis) is actually pretty damn fun on nightmare difficulty. Vagullion (bat) can be kited around the room in a specific way to avoid the bats easily most of the time, even on nightmare, it isn't down to dumb luck, you just need to take care of positioning yourself to the mass of bats correctly and he's more likely to join the bats in a small cloud if you stop moving a bit, you need to pay an excessive amount of attention to do it properly, a single distraction, even for half a second, can decide the fight entirely.

There is a specific way to defeat Dark Fact even on nightmare, it's more of a puzzle and dps race kind of battle than anything, it's difficult even when you figure it out though, the idea being to watch where he goes and hit him at the corners and edge of the floor so you still have room to move around and avoid most of the fireballs (you can avoid a lot of them, just not all of them, and of course the more the floor is destroyed the less you can avoid them).
LeChirurgien Jan 5 @ 11:38am 
I don't understand why people give the reason :
Dark Fact can be defeat on nightmare.
My point is :
I'm pretty sure 95% of the people how beat it on normal kill him by luck. You ignore 1 of the mechanic and run around and hope.
Hot Tramp Jan 5 @ 1:09pm 
Originally posted by LeChirurgien:
I don't understand why people give the reason :
Dark Fact can be defeat on nightmare.
My point is :
I'm pretty sure 95% of the people how beat it on normal kill him by luck. You ignore 1 of the mechanic and run around and hope.
Doesn't mean there isn't a way to do it. (Cela ne veut pas dire qu'il n'y a pas un moyen de le faire.)
You can just look at videos of him on nightmare on youtube and see how they do it to understand the trick. (T'as qu'à regarder des vidéos de Fact en "nightmare" sur youtube and voir comment ils font pour comprendre le truc.)

This is why people say that. (C'est pour ça que les gens le disent.)

It's especially true for other bosses.
LeChirurgien Jan 5 @ 4:49pm 
C'est quand meme pas un bon boss final si 95% des gens le font "par erreur"/par chance
The Assassin Jan 6 @ 10:56am 
As long as a boss has some sort of luck element to it, it can become frustrating. It just all depends how much that luck element plays a role in one's strategy. This isn't to say that luck should never be implimented into an enemies AI mechanic but that it has to be done carefully.

Dark Fact seemed to have a luck factor that was too strong in his AI mechanics. You couldn't directly follow his path while dodging fireballs because there was a strong chance that you'd fall directly into a pit and die. You also had to hope that the pattern of pits he was forming wouldn't eventually cut you off (or if it did that he'd still run past you enough times before your eventual demise). Even though the pits were formed based on when and where you hit Dark Fact, it was very hard to predict where they would form.

Ultimately Dark Fact felt like your average Fighting Game Final Boss; where strategy was thrown out the window and you had to just tank damage and hope the dice rolled in your favor (even with strategy). Dark Fact didn't have any attack AI that was built upon other challenges of the game (at least not on normal) as he was more or less a Bullet Hell Boss where no bullet hell bosses were present. I think I would have enjoyed the final fight better had he either reflected a combination of harder/more complex version of the bosses/enemeis prior. It left a bad taste in my mouth for an otherwise surprisingly enjoyable and interesting game.

Donnerstreik Jan 6 @ 3:40pm 
I didn't mind Dark Fact too much (maybe because I was really lucky :P) but I certainly do agree that there is way too much luck involved, looking back at the fight. For me, it only took a few tries thanks to sheer luck. But for others, as has been stated, it can take so many tries.
game-zerox Jan 7 @ 11:08am 
I never understood why people consider Dark fact as a luck based fight. Sure, you can beat him by luck, but the truth is that is's all about muscle memory.

In fact, Dark fact is one of the boss that relies least on luck. Luck is when you play X-com and you have a percentage to hit an enemy or when Vagullon finally decides to turn vulnerable. Dark Fact Has no such things since he'll always do the same show and react the same way because he doesn't have an AI, but a pattern.

People will often forget that the only true variable to the fight is the player character. Some may argue that the fireballs play into that. It may seem like they do matter as they damage you and will kill you in the long run. However the role of the fireball isn't to kill you, but to pressure you into a time limit and to finish you off when you trapped yourself. They are the least of your worries when you fight the final boss because you are forced to get hit by them and even that is because they aren't the objective of the fight.

As I said earlier, the only variable during this fight is the player character: everything is dictated by his actions. Fireballs will always aim for him, Dark Fact will make a hole when he touches him and he's the one never stuck in a pattern. It's not Dark fact that traps you in a corner or him that desintegrates you into nothingness when you're not fast enough. It's all you. You who is pressurred by a time limit and kill him before he kills you. Everythings that happens on the battlefield is dictated by your actions toward the same pattern that will never change until you do something. Which is where skill and strategy come into play. The goal of this final boss is to figure out the best way to kill him in as little time as it demands. The bar is set pretty high there is no arguing that, but it doesn't ask perfection either.

That's what I love about this boss and sorry for the wall of text.


TLDR: Your input is what makes this this fight a "luck based fight", not the final boss.
Kol Jan 7 @ 11:27am 
The boss wasn't hard when you figured out the tactic to beating him. He was just dumb and not fun. The fact that pits could open up right below you and kill you without you having anything you could do about it is just stupid.
Kol Jan 7 @ 11:28am 
On a side note ... having played up to the second boss so far in YS II I can say that the boss fights in that game are a lot more fun. Sadly they seem a lot easier so far but at least they are more interesting.
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