DCS World > General Discussions > Topic Details
Pillow Smeller Feb 7 @ 10:16pm
installation limits.
I just upgraded my PC with new SSD's and now it tells me i only have 8 installations left. Why? Isnt the point of steam DRM to prevent installation limitations? I havent run into installation limitations since EA stopped doing that.
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fearlessfrog Feb 7 @ 10:48pm 
DCS doesn't only use Steam to publish their titles and have their own e-shop etc, so they need a form of DRM that works outside of Steam as well.

You get back an activation a month, so in practical matters it hardly ever comes up as an issue.
Pillow Smeller Feb 7 @ 10:48pm 
oh ok thanks
Tatsue Feb 8 @ 12:25am 
Also, note: it's not "installations". It's machine activations. You can install/uninstall an infinite amount of times, assuming you don't heavily modify your computer or reinstall the OS.

If you ever run out of activations, a new one will be credited to your key automatically after 30 days.

Steam DRM is not compatible with 64-bit applications (or at least wasn't when this was released, was a few months since I checked). Therefore, Steam DRM simply isn't an option, considering that DCS World is 64-bit only.
hhrhhr Feb 10 @ 11:39am 
> Steam DRM is not compatible with 64-bit applications
proof?
fearlessfrog Feb 10 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by hhrhhr:
> Steam DRM is not compatible with 64-bit applications
proof?

Proof? Here you go:

#include pixie-dust.h

fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'pixie-dust.h': No such file or directory 1> crc64_dcs_world.c



The steam client was quite late for 64-bit, as most use a 32-bit wrapper (like id's RAGE did here). It is today possible, but then (a) DCS World is already here and (b) lots of people buy DCS World outside of Steam, and really don't want Steamworks as their only choice. I personally like Steam as a choice (and would love Steamworks stuff in DCS), but if you go alienate a whole bunch of existing customers in a niche market then it's pretty risky I guess.
hhrhhr Feb 10 @ 7:48pm 
> Here you go:
strange proof. what "pixie-dust.h"?

> The steam client was quite late for 64-bit
so did support it or not? if not, then how work a couple dozen 64-bit games in Steam (with network, achivements, workshop)?

> it's pretty risky I guess
using Starforce in Steam is pretty risky. but if you are interested only existing customers, then no more questions.
fearlessfrog Feb 10 @ 8:06pm 
Search for pixie-dust.h, it'll be there if you look really hard. Try tapping your heels together too.

DCS World was 64-bit way before the Steam client, and as I said, it can't just rely on Steam as it's only form of DRM as it's a title sold before it arrived here on Steam and in the developers own e-shop.

Find me a 64-bit game with Steam Workshop support that's sold stand-alone of Steam and then I'll start to believe you're not just trolling.
hhrhhr Feb 10 @ 8:33pm 
>that's sold stand-alone of Steam
for what? games can be sold anywhere and with whatever DRM.

i can name many games simultaneously sold in Steam, Uplay, GMG, GOG with Steamworks, Ubisoft DRM, as Capsule client and totally without DRM. x64 game with Workshop - Space Engineers, for example.

all that bad corresponds with your statement that "Steam DRM is not compatible with 64-bit applications [so we use StarForce]". you can remove this protection from Steam and leave it for your previous customers. or the whole thing is that you can not find the file "pixie-dust.h"?
fearlessfrog Feb 10 @ 8:49pm 
Nope, Space Engineers is Steam only, or rather each shop just gives a Steam key, including the developers own. It's a nice game, you should try it.

Sure, the Steam edition of DCS World today could rip out their existing DRM that works across all the stores and do a Steam only 64-bit stuff today (it couldn't when it came to Steam originally, but whatever) and that would make you happier?

Questions for you, as you flunked the last one, and as a multi-choice to make it easy:

Q1. Which DRM allows you to resale your purchase, as in after you have installed and played it?

(a) DCS World's existing DRM
(b) Steam's DRM

Q2. Which DRM requires you to be online in a 6 week window, otherwise you can't play, even after the initial activation?

(a) DCS World's existing DRM
(b) Steam's DRM

Q3. Which DRM installs a Window's Service onto your PC?

(a) DCS World's existing DRM
(b) Steam's DRM

Answers first thing please, and I'll see if I can't conjour up some pixie-dust as a prize or something.

EDIT: Answers for those playing along: Q1:A, Q2:B, Q3:B
Last edited by fearlessfrog; Feb 10 @ 10:47pm
Travathian Feb 10 @ 10:00pm 
Originally posted by fearlessfrog:
Sure, the Steam edition of DCS World today could rip out their existing DRM that works across all the stores and do a Steam only 64-bit stuff today (it couldn't when it came to Steam originally, but whatever) and that would make you happier?

It would make me happier :)

Me and my 400+ game Steam library shows that I am ok with paying for games with DRM, but I better get something out of it. Why treat me like a criminal and add complexity, hurdles, and opportunities for things to break in a game I am buying from you, while offering me nothing in return?

Here is a question for you: Which DRM offers chat rooms, profiles, reviews of games, demos of games, groups, friends list, and leaderboards?

(a) DCS World's existing DRM
(b) Steam's DRM
fearlessfrog Feb 10 @ 10:02pm 
DCS World already has that on Steam, so really it's just the DRM bits of Steam we were discussing. If you opt into the Valve Steam client beta then the overlay works fine (showing it was something that Valve had to change to get it to work).

So I answer (a) and (b).
hhrhhr Feb 10 @ 10:25pm 
> Space Engineers is Steam only
and it was good. however there are no obstacles to the use of any other protection systems for sale in other stores.

i think more and more that you represent Starforce as game engine, without which it is simply impossible to make games. i have not use anything with the same name, is it really true?

> resale your purchase
very cool. i can buy a key in your store, sell it to someone and then declare that the key was stolen. eventually I'll get another key and the extra money. your DRM will cope with it?

> requires you to be online in a 6 week window
i have online everyday, my telephone and TV is IP-based, ... do not care about it.

> installs a Window's Service onto your PC
which eliminates the need to run the game as administrator and disable UAC (as in your case), watch for updates of *all* of my games, is a part of global VAC anti-cheat and also makes many other useful things. for example, does not limit me in the amount of installations of the game on different computers in a month.

ARGH Feb 10 @ 10:27pm 
Originally posted by fearlessfrog:
Q2. Which DRM requires you to be online in a 6 week window, otherwise you can't play, even after the initial activation?

(a) DCS World's existing DRM
(b) Steam's DRM

What is this about?
fearlessfrog Feb 10 @ 10:35pm 
The Steam client can work in offline mode, but not indefinitely. It's an online connected DRM service, so needs to connect even after you install to allow you to keep playing. The time has varied with patches, but it's about 4-6 weeks. That's just how Valve have set it up, and people are fine with it (I don't mind it personally)

The DRM that ED uses (just to be clear, I don't speak for the developer/publisher, I just help out on the forums) uses an indefinite offline solution, which is why it uses machine activations, i.e. you change the motherboard in your computer then you 'lose' an activation as it thinks it is a new PC. You then get that activation back after a month. You can change your hardware in your PC 10 times in a row before it's an issue. If it didn't tie it to that at least then everyone could just install it everywhere.

So one DRM uses 'time' while another uses machine 'activations'.

Steam is a great service, and I personally would like everything to use Steamworks fully as I spend a lot of time on Steam, but that ignores that (a) some people don't want to have to use it and (b) some things existed before Steam came along and don't want to just be sold solely through Steam.
ARGH Feb 10 @ 10:39pm 
Originally posted by fearlessfrog:
The Steam client can work in offline mode...

Oh, thanks for the response; I was confused for a moment, because I had the impression I would have to activate the modules within 6 weeks or :(.
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Date Posted: Feb 7 @ 10:16pm
Posts: 42