Shotguns, the worst gun in game again....

[MaxPresi]

I really do not understand the problem of leaving the shotguns playable.

By the time I bought the game years ago, it was the same ♥♥♥♥, then it got better, you could kill someone with 1 or 2 shots. Now it's 1 to 5 shots, where it's easier to kill from a distance than close, which makes me believe you do not know how a shotgun works.

Killing with a shot is almost impossible, only if the guy has already been shot before by another player. Killing closely is impossible, where 70% of the killings with shotguns are after 3 shots ... A slingshot is more effective than these shotguns.

I have always played insurgency with shotguns, they are my favorite weapons, that is why it was my first true mod for the insurgency workshop (M3 Super90).

Taking the jokes and be serious, please, fix them <3

[Sterling]

Totally. The shotguns are a disgrace with buckshot, and even with slugs I can't really see the point in picking them over a rifle, except supply points. It's crushed by any other weapon, basically. Slugs make it a slow-firing 8 shot (or whatever is the size of that thing) rifle, so the least we could have is a close combat beast.

[RaÿTHeoN:]

Originally posted by Sterling:

Totally. The shotguns are a disgrace with buckshot, and even with slugs I can't really see the point in picking them over a rifle, except supply points. It's crushed by any other weapon, basically. Slugs make it a slow-firing 8 shot (or whatever is the size of that thing) rifle, so the least we could have is a close combat beast.

Shotguns are intended for use against unarmored targets.

The only 12 gauge rounds I've seen penetrate soft armor are exotic flechette rounds which wouldn't be used in a combat zone anyway.

In real life neither buckshot or a 1 oz slug will defeat soft body armor much less a carrier with AR500 steel plates. NOw that being said if you are hit in a vest with a slug with soft armor you're gonna be hurt badly from internal damage / broken ribs.

As disgusting as the shotgun is in this games it's damage model is somewhat realistic.

[BlackCockDown]

Prior to the kick to the balls shotguns ran 00 feed with 9 pellets and tighter spread.

It was still piss against armour, no one disputed that, it was balanced. You could match up to mid range like a shotgun rightfully would and aim for legs. Essentially it was reasonable in CQB and can hold its own (to a smaller extent) past that.

Now you have 12, but they ramped up the spread so much you can't hope to even use them at mid range. Even in close range you have freak cases of all pellets missing his tacticool tights.

Now the shotguns aren't capable at mid range anymore, but don't even have an assured kill in CQB. It can't do anything outside its sweet spot and even its success in the sweet spot is questionable. If that's not useless what is?

Everyone seems to have this idea "that's what shotguns do" but it's extremely telling when absolutely no one uses shotguns even in Ministry.

The best way is sometimes to just reverse the changes, plus add the following tweaks: upping pellet headshot damage to flat out kill, and slightly ramping up the rate of fire of shotguns.

[tl;dr] shotguns were just balanced the way they were before, I don't know what they did to suddenly get a nerf.

[MaxPresi]

No, even without armor I kill at least with 2 or 3 shots (it depends on the class), outside that even with shots in the head some do not die (specifically the heavy ones) ...

[Redscale83]

I agree that the shotguns suck now.

Instead of buffing Buckshot again to be much better than Slugs I suggest just increasing the shotguns' firing rate more. Pump-action is much faster than bolt-action in real life. Also I think the Slug ammo's suppression is bugged so I suggest fixing it.

My suggestions:
- Increase firing rate more (both with and without Foregrip)
- Make Slug ammo cause suppression (Bugfix?)

[=BB= Pudfark]

Modern body armor pretty much negates shotguns. Insurgency accurately reflects this.
On a high bot count server, a Saiga-12 and a good pair of Nike's....will work. ;)

[RaÿTHeoN:]

Originally posted by =BB= Pudfark:

Modern body armor pretty much negates shotguns. Insurgency accurately reflects this.
On a high bot count server, a Saiga-12 and a good pair of Nike's....will work. ;)

[BlackCockDown]

Originally posted by =BB= Pudfark:

Modern body armor pretty much negates shotguns. Insurgency accurately reflects this.
On a high bot count server, a Saiga-12 and a good pair of Nike's....will work. ;)

It's true that INS is right in that regard but it's still possible to tweak them to be better and still keep to the boundaries of realism.

Instant kills with a single pellet should be a thing, I heard the ping once and yet that tit of a bot still had the breath in him to hose me down.

Giving back 00 with tighter spread and 9 pellets, not 12, can still make it sufficiently lethal at close range if you hit the limbs yet still maintain usability past the 10th meter.

And like I said, if no one on the server uses them it's telling that it's outright bad. In fact most people who use them run them for only one round max before switching out.

[Technopath]

Originally posted by =BB= Pudfark:

Modern body armor pretty much negates shotguns. Insurgency accurately reflects this.
On a high bot count server, a Saiga-12 and a good pair of Nike's....will work. ;)

In other words: If we want the shotguns to be usable, we need to mod the game.

Yeah, that's a good excuse for the developers to be incapable of balancing.

[Sterling]

I think we need semi-automatic shotguns. The Saiga in some servers is scary as ♥♥♥♥.

[[OG] Cuddlez]

This topic has pretty much been discussed to death
http://steamcommunity.com/app/222880/discussions/0/154645427522596385/

Unfortunately, it seems the devs won't be doing anything as they are concentrating on sandstorm (apparently). This problem was evident ever since the 2015 october armour update, which unbalanced allot of weapons. So, it can be assumed that the devs didn't entirely wish shotguns to be useless against armour.

However, regardless of realism, Slugshots should still be able to penetrate armour as they do exist in real life and for the sake of gameplay balancing. Otherwise, majority of people have decided that aiming for limbs is now more effective (with buckshot).

As I metioned before, unfortunately, we can't expect any substantial updates addressing this.

[=BB= Pudfark]

Originally posted by Sterling:

I think we need semi-automatic shotguns. The Saiga in some servers is scary as ♥♥♥♥.

This is true^^^^^.
I have a fella in my group...who uses it quite a bit and very succesfully. Heads and limbs are his targets. It takes a special kind of patience and timing to be as good as him....while I will use it occasionally....I'm not him. My servers run the Theater Armory Mod Expanded and high bot counts. Pump shotties get ya killed...quick.

[⛥ ⌁⌁L⁕ꝉ⁜ϾH ⌁⌁]

I've shot 6 AP Model 10 at 15 feet prone and the guy didn't flinch. (ie theyall missed)

[BlackCockDown]

Originally posted by --s..Lich..s--:

I've shot 6 AP Model 10 at 15 feet prone and the guy didn't flinch. (ie theyall missed)

Thanks for the relevant opinion.

[⛥ ⌁⌁L⁕ꝉ⁜ϾH ⌁⌁]

Originally posted by BlackCockDown:

Originally posted by --s..Lich..s--:

I've shot 6 AP Model 10 at 15 feet prone and the guy didn't flinch. (ie theyall missed)

Thanks for the relevant opinion.

Np. Title is worst gun after all.