Richardguy Mar 9, 2014 @ 12:59pm
So "support"/artillery spam decks are actually going to become a thing in Red Dragon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJGVyL5aPk4 (skip to 9:02 and pause)

+1XP for unit type- "support"
+4 slots for unit type "support"
+4 slots of unit type "logistics"

Because artillery spam wasn't a big enough problem in this game, our friends at Eugene have decided to give those BM-21 Grad spamming ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s even more toys to play with and drain not only their FOBs but ours as well. I do not understand how- at all!- Eugene could possibly have missed the dozens of threads complaining about idiots over-using artillery vehicles, even at times deploying only artillery and not anything else, wasting three or four FOBs at a time and then sending their supply trucks to our FOBs to rob them!

And here's the best part- a rule for using this deck is that you cannot use any units not marked "Support"- meaning that even a well-meaning noob cannot even deploy, say, recon to spot for his artillery, or do anything productive in that regard.

Now, you might be saying, "Well, it's a support deck! Can't he deploy stuff like AA for his team? ".

Let's be honest. Unless it's a clan game where one person is running all the logistics and such for the team, or it's a 10v10 where one man does not matter much, how many trolls do you think are going to utilize this and deploy as many rocket artillery trucks as possible, fire them off, empty their FOBs, then leave you with those useless units?
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Cullen's Hound Mar 9, 2014 @ 2:07pm 
Youu can't judge what the final balance will be froma closed beta, although if you want to look at that arty seems to have gotten a boost to lethality and a major nerf to rof and supply consumption. The nerf to category c availabilty should help against all spam decks. You can already get a deck with bonuses to support
bringermc Mar 9, 2014 @ 2:21pm 
Also the decks the way they will be now do not get rid of recon slots of the like. It only increases the amount of slots you have in category you want. All categorys will have a max amount of units you can put in it. So say can have 3 tank slots. If you go Armoured deck then will be able to use all 8 tank slots but lose none of the other slots in the deck so would still have say 3 recon slots and the likes.
Richardguy Mar 9, 2014 @ 3:00pm 
Originally posted by Great Caesar's Ghost:
Youu can't judge what the final balance will be froma closed beta, although if you want to look at that arty seems to have gotten a boost to lethality and a major nerf to rof and supply consumption. The nerf to category c availabilty should help against all spam decks. You can already get a deck with bonuses to support

The fact that they are even considering this is worrisome. However, if I had a say in this, I'd keep it lethal but reduce the amount of arty available. You think people won't abuse large amounts of arty? Go into any 10v10 Ragnarok game.
Cullen's Hound Mar 9, 2014 @ 5:36pm 
Arty is pretty useless in wab, especially considering that God of War was an apt title for it. you should wait until the open beta before you comment on it, one of the things betas are for is to work out balance. There are posts that suggest that they had already started to dial it back before the first beta ended.
Richardguy Mar 9, 2014 @ 6:11pm 
Do you think they're gioing to erase an entire deck-type before the game's released however?
Cullen's Hound Mar 9, 2014 @ 7:06pm 
I don't think they should, right now the support bonus is shared with vehicles, sharing itwith logistics is much better as far as dealing with the problems of arty spammers draining fobs
Traffic Conez Mar 10, 2014 @ 2:05am 
Arty is not that effective, more annyoing really
Richardguy Mar 10, 2014 @ 1:45pm 
Originally posted by Traffic Conez:
Arty is not that effective, more annyoing really

*Loses 65 point I-HAWK to 20 point mortar barrage*

"Arty is not that effective"

This might be true in general, because of low accuracy, low shots per barrage etc, but not true in actuality against targets arty is actually meant to be used against- landed helicopters, infantry, fragile units like Chapparals, CVs, etc.
imrahil2 Mar 10, 2014 @ 3:45pm 
good arty is essential for attacking a well defended area, especially if they have great AA
troublmaker Mar 10, 2014 @ 6:58pm 
Artillery is intended to be strong in W:RD. But I mean, they're only strong because of focused shots. Without a focused shot artillery basically does nothing at all.

The support player fills in the role of providing tonnes of anti-air, a few artillery and some anti-tank. They are a functioanlly defensive role that is designed to more or less "fill in the blanks" of what is on the map.

People who just bring out artillery and spam them non-stop on random locations are going to be surprised as how ineffective that is.

Anyway if you're worried about people stealing your FOB supplies... turn them off. They will not distribute supplies if you have them turned off.

I did a full video showing a lot of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lPIa4_nR4&list=PLA-90G30phFEueY8HHxJq_KWPWrpMIx1p
Traffic Conez Mar 11, 2014 @ 12:09am 
Originally posted by Richardguy:
Originally posted by Traffic Conez:
Arty is not that effective, more annyoing really

*Loses 65 point I-HAWK to 20 point mortar barrage*

"Arty is not that effective"

This might be true in general, because of low accuracy, low shots per barrage etc, but not true in actuality against targets arty is actually meant to be used against- landed helicopters, infantry, fragile units like Chapparals, CVs, etc.

Unlucky, but more harassament than serious damage, in truth people hate artillery because there units are killed unseen and without a chance, similar to why people hate snipers in FPS games.
Richardguy Mar 11, 2014 @ 4:28pm 
Originally posted by troublmaker:
Artillery is intended to be strong in W:RD. But I mean, they're only strong because of focused shots. Without a focused shot artillery basically does nothing at all.

The support player fills in the role of providing tonnes of anti-air, a few artillery and some anti-tank. They are a functioanlly defensive role that is designed to more or less "fill in the blanks" of what is on the map.

People who just bring out artillery and spam them non-stop on random locations are going to be surprised as how ineffective that is.

Anyway if you're worried about people stealing your FOB supplies... turn them off. They will not distribute supplies if you have them turned off.

I did a full video showing a lot of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lPIa4_nR4&list=PLA-90G30phFEueY8HHxJq_KWPWrpMIx1p

8 Smerches. Instead of just two, as you mentioned in your video which seems to be a similar mistake you make in some of your videos but I digress. A concentrated volley of over 100 rockets with 16 HE is of course going to do some damage.

But things like Malkas? One shot is all you need to destroy even things like Gepards.
Cullen's Hound Mar 11, 2014 @ 5:35pm 
Hawks have no top armor at all, they should die easily to anything especially something that puts out the volume of shells a 81mm can put out, even the 60mm should kill it. Gepards only have a top armor of one, why do you think it should survive a 203mm shell? Sniper artillery even in alb has a horrible ready magazine and ridiculous supply consumption I can't imagine what it will take to supply them in RD if the rumors of increased supply consumption are true. As far as how many are available in a closed beta, it is a closed beta, at least wait to see if the open beta has them before you freak out.
Remo Mar 11, 2014 @ 7:07pm 
Arty won't be an issue in RD, yes it will be slightly better but the terrain will be different in RD allowing more hiding spots and such. Thus you need to bump Arty a little to compensate. The hiding spots in AB were so obvious.

I think Richard is the type of person who dislikes losing units to an enemy that can see them. Hide them better, and use recon to spot and destroy the enemies arty.
Cullen's Hound Mar 11, 2014 @ 8:42pm 
Both arty and aa missiles leave smoke trails, this makes them visible. Arty is just as vulnerable to counter fire missions as aam's if you don't bother to micro manage and reposition. Aam's just catch more of it because people are more focused on the area it is firing from.
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Date Posted: Mar 9, 2014 @ 12:59pm
Posts: 20