a call for a simple realistic mode

[m o o m]

First thing, I think it's a great game. and I think so because unlike your common RTS it focuses on realistic settings, which leads to realistic tactics.

However, some traditional RTS mechanisms are still in there :
1. over-balancing of maps (most are meeting engagements, with symmetric builds)
2. unrealistic reinforcement modelcauses rock-scissor-paper gameplay, which sucks.

A (common) example :
two sides rushing airborne troops to a city, followed by AA ground units moving recklessly on the unsecured road toward the known meeting point... this is both unrealistic and it also gets boring after a while.

I suggest the following modifications for a better gaming experience :

1. no / limited reinforcement mode - if you had to pick your troops at the beginning of each combat. to encourage you to hold the zones you could play in conquest mode, or better yet an hybrid conquest / destruction mode.

2. offense / defense mode : we could give the defender 1/3 points of the other side, but let her deploy on all the zones. (this is not the "siege" mode, which resembles nothing at all in most realistic scenarios - because one side is circled and the other gets reinforcements ... )

3. less flexibility in decks : we could have a special game mode which only allows you to choice a "main" force (say infantry/mechanized/armored regiment ) + some supporting elements (artillary/aircraft/logistics)

Note my suggestions can be implemented at scenario level, so they are (a) optional and (b) easy to implement. perhaps it can even be done by modding.

What do you think ?

[orcbuster]

Wargame is far from realistic, did you for example know that all ranges are scaled by 2.5? so when the game displays a 2.5km range it is actually just 1 km?

[m o o m]

I did not mean "realistic" as in "military simulation". I play it for fun (I know only too well military maneuvers are *not* fun) .

What I've meant is by avoiding the concepts of standard RTS (such as endless, nameless, units, rock-scissor-paper system and other over-simplified game mechanisms) it becomes a better game than most RTS are (for me). therefore, I raise some suggestions to make it an even less over-simplified, and a better *game*.

[~~KiLL3R3000~~]

I agree with some of what you said my main issue is i hate the mirrored maps it's just unrealistic and in war one side is always going to have an advantage over the other but that does not mean they are going to win, it's all about tactics and how you apply them, i would certainly appreciate more variety within the maps and less over-balancing.

[dark_horse_spirit]

I enjoy the replays more than I do the game, I can slow the replay down to 0.50 speed and it adds a little realism, Most kids with ma and Pas credit card would not by it if the actual game were this slow, kids want in your face unrealistic action. I agree the game mechanics leave a little wanting in the realistic mode. Maybe a realistic mode for those who want it.

[Chestus]

so setting range to 1 to 1 makes all the difference you need

[Mors]

orcbuster lähetti viestin:

Wargame is far from realistic, did you for example know that all ranges are scaled by 2.5? so when the game displays a 2.5km range it is actually just 1 km?

Good thing is we have mods where we can have 1:1 distance :D

Like I don't care about vanilla anymore at all, I didn't want to play multiplayer anyways so now with my own mod where I can have 1:1 distance and tweak general rules like aiming times (from 0.3s to 4-30 seconds) and adjust overpowered american units to more realistic ones, I have "perfect" game to play with friends.

The fact is, most Wargame players could not manage 1:1 distance ratio. It would require them to rethink everything. The units are not the key element, units experience and TERRAIN is the key element. You don't want to send airborn troops or AA units to front as you can be easily shot down or your AA units destroyed. You are not fighting anymore between two forest or over road but you are really fighting from even 3-10km range (almost whole map) depending unit (like think about Leopard 2A4 vs T-80U where both are firing from 3.5km range!!!! You do want to stay on move and change your movement direction on each shot so the shell what is flying slowly would miss you! And you want to get anything between you and enemy to block aim)

[TomGuadalupe]

Scholtz lähetti viestin:

orcbuster lähetti viestin:

Good thing is we have mods where we can have 1:1 distance :D

What is this mod that you speak of?

[Strez]

Radu's Radical Realism Mod, but it isn't released yet.

[Mors]

Tankhunter lähetti viestin:

Radu's Radical Realism Mod, but it isn't released yet.

My own. You don't need to wait anyone to make a mod for you, you have mod tools and you can easily spend few evenings to modify everything what not even "Radur" have done. As he isn't only one who has had those ideas or modified game for them ;)

Like example he has removed many units from game (ie. BUK and HAWK) because "they don't fit to scale". But you can keep them in game very easily but just make them more realistic so they have purpose to be.

[m o o m]

guys , scale was not my issue at all . two things :

1. no reinforcement / single reinforcement round with pre-determined or limited units
2. offense / defense mode - one guy gets the zones and 1/3 of the points.

what say you ? maybe I'll try to run some games with those limitations as "rules of honor". anybody in for testing these ?

[Tenebris]

Soooo Siege mode?

[Mors]

You can make some kind version where you don't get any reinforcement points in game. Then you modify the initial point pool and thats it. If wanted, you can remove even maps reinforcement parameters so you can't call any unit to field (AFAIK).

[Chestus]

no just range 1/1 does it for me, were can i get this mod?

[m o o m]

Tenebris lähetti viestin:

Soooo Siege mode?

no, like I wrote in the 1st message siege mode is nothing like that at all. siege mode is a highly irregular battle mode the "sieged" team is actually on a very irregular offensive , with 360 degrees front.
there was a turn based game called steel panther world at war - I imagine "offense/defense" mode as something in the line of the "assault" scenario in this game, where the offense has to focus forces and plan properly, while the defende needs a smart, mobile defense

[Traffic Conez]

Most of the maps are too balanced and boringish, my favourite are the assymetrical so I have to agree with you there.