No Death Run Advice (Contains Spoilers and Much Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth)

[sanjmerchant]

What suggestions do people have for a no death run? I've been trying, and I can't even get over that first spike pit reliably. I figure the Monk is good for shortening puzzles and grabbing stuff safely, the Knight makes a good point man because, if you're fast enough, you can go invincible to avoid falling damage. And, maybe the Scientist or the Twins? I recall their character specific sections are relatively safe. I've heard the Time Traveler can disqualify you, since you have to leave other characters in the past, and the thought of trying to do the Pyramid without dying makes me rule out the Adventurer outright. The Hillbilly is probably good for avoiding stupid drowning deaths, but climbing up and down the ferris wheel in the carnival gives me pause.

Also, in other people's experience, is the keyboard-mouse combo any more reliable for getting around than the gamepad? I know you can do a mid air jump if you're over a chasm or spike pit, but I can't seem to pull that off reliably, either.

[¿Albatrossing?]

here's a tip from the xbox achievement guide people for the achievement
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=418399

"I find this easiest with the Hillbilly, Scientist and Monk as their sections of the cave are fairly safe.

Just a few words of warning:
Avoid the guard with the gun in the Scientist's launch facility.
Stay still on the magic carpets in the Monk's temple.
Careful on that Ferris Wheel at the Hillbilly's carnival.
Watch out for the miner's dynamite.
At the zoo a good whack from the Crystal Cave Monster's tail will kill you.
The large hole on the desert island is very easy to fall into.

Remember, if you die (or are about to die), quickly hit the guide button and exit to dash. You may need to replay a large portion of the game but at least you won't be replaying everything!"

I guess you can just replace the guide button with ctrl-alt-del but it's mostly about being very careful and not rushing in

[Urthdigger]

I think I'd agree with using the knight and the monk. Especially using them together. While the Knight's area is dangerous if done correctly, the monk can easily grab the key, open the lock, and grab the treasure all without putting himself in any danger. Also, the Knight can make the island easier by allowing you to use the pits as shortcuts.

Your main danger will likely be dynamite. It can be difficult to run away from the explosion sometime (Especially that stupid miner!), but it may help to just activate the knight's invincibility rather than running.

[sanjmerchant]

I'm gonna update this thread periodically with observations that future no-death-runners may find useful. I invite anyone else to do the same.

Let's start with a note about jumping. Counterintuitively, I find it easier to jump over pits from a standing start instead of a running one. Perhaps this is an instance where my computer's weak graphics card is working against me, but I find that, while running, it's difficult to gauge exactly when you should push the jump button (too soon and you don't clear the pit, too late and you just fall in). Plus, since running doesn't seem to add any distance to your jump, a well-planned standing jump seems to be safer.

It's good to know that the Knight's invincibilty includes explosions, even if he's the one holding the dynamite. That makes blowing things up considerably easier. (Certain things, like being crushed, do override Knightly invincibility).

It's also good to know that, when you first encounter the miner, the game starts that first stick of dynamite's timer BEFORE giving you control of your character back. The best course of action seems to be to just run from that first stick, and come back for the bucket and the shovel. The aforementioned control issue meant the Knight couldn't grab the bucket and go invincible before being blown to smithereens. Next attempt I'll have to see if the Monk's telekenesis has enough range to get the bucket and the shovel without putting himself in danger.

[Biohazard063]

I died in the mines once just from jumping on a rope from a platform so yeah. Look out for that. Also i think this would be impossible to do in co-op since when I played with my mate our characters fell through the map numerous times.

[sanjmerchant]

Originalmente postado por {-NAG-}Bombsquad:

I died in the mines once just from jumping on a rope from a platform so yeah. Look out for that. Also i think this would be impossible to do in co-op since when I played with my mate our characters fell through the map numerous times.

Good to know about co-op, though if you're achievement hunting, a lot of them are disabled in co-op, so it's a good idea to go solo if you want to earn achievements.

While this past run wasn't a no-death run, it did provide some useful information.

I was wrong when I said that you didn't get control back until after the first stick of dynamite starts burning. I'm not sure why my Knight wouldn't pick up the bucket before, but if you just run, you can actually get out of there before he even throws the first stick.

If you have him, I recommend using the Monk's telekenesis to pick up the shovel and the bucket, as he can get them without being spotted by the miner.

The Knight's invicibility can make catching dynamite much less risky. And yes, the dynamite will land in the bucket even if the Knight has his shields up.

The laser is definitely the biggest hazard in the Scientist section, and getting the timing down of baiting it, running away, and then coming back to work the console can be tricky. (I must have been very lucky the first time, because I didn't remember it being so finicky.)

Keeping the balloon inflated on the island means one less pitfall to fall into when crossing over the top.

[TheTurnipKing]

Honestly, this is a rotten "achievement". The Cave isn't a precision platformer and it's all too easy to die to a quirk of physics. (At one point while pushing the boat into the water on the Island, I managed to wind up with him stuck under it and die to it).

It's even worse because, aside from this one achievement, the game is largely above the temptation to punish you for death, and indeed there are achievements which run directly counter to this achievement (Fire in the Hole, for example)

[sanjmerchant]

Originalmente postado por TheTurnipKing:

Honestly, this is a rotten "achievement". The Cave isn't a precision platformer and it's all too easy to die to a quirk of physics. (At one point while pushing the boat into the water on the Island, I managed to wind up with him stuck under it and die to it).

It's even worse because, aside from this one achievement, the game is largely above the temptation to punish you for death, and indeed there are achievements which run directly counter to this achievement (Fire in the Hole, for example)

Honestly, I agree with you completely, but I figure that for people like me, to whom that one unachieved achievement rankles, a place to come to for tips and advice on getting it anyway would be useful.

[sanjmerchant]

Speaking of getting screwed over by the pushing physics, my latest run-through involved the Twins, the Time Traveler, and the Adventurer. Since the Adventurer's level is basically a series of death traps, I reiterate that I wouldn't recommend it for a no-death run. I can see where it's possible to get through without dying, but the timing is especially tight.

The Twins' mansion is fairly safe, but getting into it and getting up onto the roof can be tricky. Also, as stupid as it sounds, do not try to jump onto or over the box as you're pushing it down the stairs, it can crush you.

Assuming what I've heard is wrong, and stranding characters in the past does NOT count as death for this achievement, the Time Traveler section isn't too bad either. One point that can get especially risky is pushing blocks off of the ledge in the prehistory part. It's a little too easy to get carried away and go over along with the block, which is a long enough drop to kill.

Next run, I'll see if you can circumvent puzzles by carrying items through the Cave. Can you skip the catch-the-dynamite puzzle by bringing your own from the gift shop or the castle? Can you skip the tape recorder puzzle by bringing your own hot dog?

[DonSeismo]

I recommened Monk, Knight and Scientist.

Monk: very easy and short level, just be careful when climbing up and down, don't move on the carpets and don't stand under the elevator!!
Knight: very easy level when you have the monk in your team, just steal the key and gold with telekinesis, but be careful with the first climbing section, the dynamite and the guards
Scientist: very easy level, just be careful with the guard and the elevator, the knock out gas doesn't kill you

You can shortcut certain parts, the monk can get the hotdog in the zoo level with telekinesis, this is quite a huge shortcut. If you're going with other characters, bringin the hot dog with you will help.

Unfortunately there's no shortcut in the mining car section, but the knight makes it easier. Use invincibility while falling and when using the dynamite.

Also at the first boat passage, use two characters. One that pushes the boat into the water, then wait and let it float to the other side and use the second character to pull it out of the water. Physic are often glitched here.

Also I recommened a gamepad, as walking is easier and more precise.

And one fun fact at the end, "there is no dying in The Cave", doesn't match the achievement, does it? :D

[TheTurnipKing]

Originalmente postado por sanjmerchant:

Honestly, I agree with you completely, but I figure that for people like me, to whom that one unachieved achievement rankles, a place to come to for tips and advice on getting it anyway would be useful.

Just consider it some wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I find it difficult to believe the achievements were a "Ron" thing, because this is almost exactly the same kind of crap he set out to eliminate from Monkey Island.

I started off playing predominantly with the mouse but in the end wound up using WASD.

I can honestly say I don't think I'm EVER getting this achievement.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Definitely the worst achievement in the game. Achievements should be FUN and add longevity to the game. Adding achievments like this crosses the line into frustration. I doubt I'll even serioulsly try getting it.

[DonSeismo]

It is not that difficult, just use the tips given in this thread. In your 5th or 6th playthrough the game is quite short and you'll know all dangers you have to avoid.

[The Derr Man]

I used the Hillbilly, Scientist and Monk, since their areas aren't dangerous, the achievement is very easy to get, if you die you can just force close the game, you will start at the last auto or manual save.

The monk is great at skipping The Zoo, and the only really dangerous moment is the ferris wheel.

[DonSeismo]

Originalmente postado por The Derr Man:

The monk is great at skipping The Zoo, and the only really dangerous moment is the ferris wheel.

Not if you take the fuse from the trinket level with you ;D
But as said I recommened using the knight instead. With the monk you can easily steal the key and gold in the castle which makes this level even shorter. Also use the knights invincibility skills whenever possible, you can bypass several climbing sections in the mine car mission for example.

Also use the auto regroup feature. There are several passages that can be done with only one character (knight) and the others will follow automatically. For example at the end, just collect the trinkets and leave the characters behind. As soon as you get to the gift shop clerk they will regroup.

[McCrank]

How do you hold and auto regroup?