Muffinabus 2013년 1월 14일 오후 11시 37분
Radeon 13.1 Drivers coming out Wednesday.
https://twitter.com/CatalystCreator/status/290925385913360384

Not sure what "logo certified" means (maybe a non beta release?).

Should be interesting considering we haven't had a driver update in some time. Looking forward to giving them a try.
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b4cki ❤ Katzii3 2013년 1월 15일 오전 2시 58분 
I really hope there is some serious performance improvement in the new drivers.
rudeboyskunk 2013년 1월 15일 오전 4시 52분 
Would be nice if they would just update the legacy drivers so I can install Ubuntu 12.10.
Michael 2013년 1월 15일 오후 1시 34분 
epic fail@linux님이 먼저 게시:
I really hope there is some serious performance improvement in the new drivers.

At a guess these are just the beta drivers we already have after going through WHQL (or not in this case)

I doubt there are any major changes or performance increases, but I suppose there could be.

I suspect the new beta drivers are really what we're waiting for which the guy said on twitter would be out in a few weeks.

Although I'm not really that interested anymore. When Valve release their own 'Steam box' hardware I'll see how much it is and I might consider replacing my PC with that instead of upgrading it (unless it uses AMD hardware that is. I wouldn't use a linux box if it has AMD hardware in it even if Gabe gives it away and he delivers it to me by hand)

But this is just a waste of time, especially when I have something that works perfectly well. AMD don't work well enough or fast enough to have betas that depend on them providing code.

And TBH most of the games at this stage are not really that enticing to me (aside from a couple that I already own) Pretty much everything I bought in the sales doesn't seem to be on the near horizon for getting a linux version if they will at all.

So, my experience with the beta basically boiled down to running TF2, seeing the performance was pants and then waiting weeks or months for new drivers, which may or may not improve it, with in the meantime really no point, purpose or incentive at all to boot into linux.
Michael님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 1월 15일 오후 1시 49분
Muffinabus 2013년 1월 15일 오후 3시 34분 
I've got highly comparable FPS in TF2 when compared to Windows. Sure, it's not perfect right now, but we're heading in the right direction. The library will grow with time, obviously, but that's not going to be any different on the Steam box when compared to Linux, they'd be on the same page (theoretically...). I'll personally be sitting pretty on Linux once Valve releases their full catalog, but then I really am only playing Dota 2 and occasionally GO at the moment.

Hopefully the Steam box entices future developers to not only port over their existing games but release them globally at the same time as Windows.

I'm still not too impressed with AMD at the moment but they're getting their act together while Steam is still in a beta state. I'll be pretty disappointed if they continue in the direction they've been going lately when it comes to developing their Linux drivers even after Steam has officially released and the Steam box becomes a reality.
Muffinabus님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 1월 15일 오후 3시 34분
Benjamin 2013년 1월 16일 오전 12시 59분 
They've got a little time before the client goes out of beta. AMD proprietary drivers are still buggy, but they're a ton better than the last time I tried them (about a year ago).

I'm personally waiting to switch back to the open source drivers, once the performance increases a little and more of the new features hit mainline.
Michael 2013년 1월 16일 오전 3시 53분 
Muffinabus님이 먼저 게시:
I've got highly comparable FPS in TF2 when compared to Windows.

Yeah I get numbers I can compare too. The linux ones are lower :(

Is it better? Well yes, but mostly because Valve had some bug eating cpu cycles in steam.

The graphics side can't be better because AMD haven't done anything for what must be getting on for 2 months (although I suppose if you count, releasing a driver that fixes a crash doing something, perhaps it's only 6 weeks - although as I posted here, working around that crash was fairly straightforward anyway)

The library will grow with time, obviously, but that's not going to be any different on the Steam box when compared to Linux

Well it is different, because I was talking about time spent right now on my current computer with stuff that doesn't work and that Valve can do little or nothing about. Whereas the steam box is in the future where, as you note, not only will time have passed and more games are likely to be ported, but Valve will have more control over what hardware goes in this box too.

In short, the sane thing to do right now would be to just buy a nvidia card. £100-200 and the problem is mostly, if not entirely, solved. But I don't really want to do that, especially since my computer works perfectly well to play games in windows.

But obviously at some stage in the future I will upgrade and then Steam box, nvidia cards, selling it all and buying a better pushbike instead are all options. One thing is for sure though, I won't buy an AMD card because I would be stupid if I did especially if Linux is going to be a big part of PC gaming in the future.

I'm still not too impressed with AMD at the moment but they're getting their act together while Steam is still in a beta state. I'll be pretty disappointed if they continue in the direction they've been going lately when it comes to developing their Linux drivers even after Steam has officially released and the Steam box becomes a reality.

Well my experience with linux and gaming dates back over a decade, back to when I was bug fixing the linux drivers for radeon myself to get things like quake 3 and garage game's stuff to run without crashing. Which, is ironic because if there was a job somewhere to write drivers for 3d graphics cards I wouldn't get hired. So clearly linux 3d driver writing was in the hands of at least one buffoon if not more. Has that changed because AMD are writing their own drivers?

After my experience on linux with AMD years ago, I got a ti4200 and then a 7600gt. Had nvidia not decided to make every card after they released the 8800gt be an 8800gt with a different model number and not decided to sell cards that doubled as frying pans I might have carried on buying nvidia.

But I wondered if AMD had got their act together and in some respects they had with windows - but releases like rage and the enduro thing show they haven't really...and now I'm back on linux again and it's clearly the same as ever.

But I'm interested in what you believe has happened which shows "they're getting their act together while Steam is still in a beta state" ?
Michael님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 1월 16일 오전 4시 04분
Muffinabus 2013년 1월 16일 오전 9시 41분 
In reference to AMD improving their Linux drivers I've seen some slight improvements via the beta drivers over the month or so that they had them coming out. The 12.11 beta drivers were crap. Awful TF2 framerates, awful SS3 framerates, etc. 12.11 beta8 came out and while the release notes noted some source engine improvements there was an issue with the driver that caused Steam not to start. So then beta11 was a huge improvement on my end. TF2 runs as it does on Windows (300+ FPS, though Windows might show a more consistent framerate, I haven't tested it extensively), SS3 runs decently at a playable framerate now, and these are still with the beta drivers within the month that Steam went into beta.

The drivers due out today will be the first non beta release since Steam has gone into testing, so I'll have to see what improvements they've made to get a decent idea on the progress they've done since beta11 was posted (44 days ago).
Evil Penguin 2013년 1월 16일 오후 7시 52분 
Don't get your hopes up...

hvr 2013년 1월 17일 오후 2시 42분 
Muffinabus 2013년 1월 17일 오후 4시 48분 
[366820] Performance of Valve Linux games

I'm hopeful! I'll be able to test the driver out later tonight.
El Pollo Santos 2013년 1월 17일 오후 11시 28분 
Odd update, TF2 works better most of the time, and AA mode is working decently, however I am getting big performance dips periodically regardless of what is happening in game. Having AA enabled greatly worsens this problem. Overall 12.11 beta 11 gave me more consistant performace. However these drivers seem to run cooler, or at least have better fan control on my dual 5870m's
Michael 2013년 1월 18일 오전 2시 06분 
Muffinabus님이 먼저 게시:
In reference to AMD improving their Linux drivers I've seen some slight improvements via the beta drivers over the month or so that they had them coming out. The 12.11 beta drivers were crap. Awful TF2 framerates, awful SS3 framerates, etc. 12.11 beta8 came out and while the release notes noted some source engine improvements there was an issue with the driver that caused Steam not to start. So then beta11 was a huge improvement on my end.

Yeah, the point being, beta8 and beta11 and 13.1 all have and had the same so-called "performance improvements for valve linux games" - which isn't really much help because TF2 is still unplayable (and doesn't really help the other games that Valve didn't write)

The biggest improvement came from Valve removing the cpu bug after beta 11 came out.

beta8 came out around Nov 20th afaict. As you note, it broke more than it fixed. It took them a couple of weeks just to release a driver with no further improvements that actually worked without a workaround.

Search in here you'll see a thread I started showing how to get Steam to start with beta8

So they haven't really improved anything at all for months now, even though they've released a few driver versions. A common theme of theirs.

At best you can say 13.1 should get rid of the moronic "testing only" logo (whoever came up with that as an idea shouldn't be allowed back in an AMD building) But you'll soon get that back if and when they release another so-called "beta" driver that actually makes some improvement to something.

(I know you can get rid of the logo, but you shouldn't have to start editing drivers and NOPing out function calls or copying signature files around. No more than you should have had to run steam in gdb to get it to start with beta8 drivers installed)

The point is AMD don't have a driver that works, don't write drivers that work and so the only possible way on any OS to use their hardware to play games is to install what they now call "beta" drivers (even their twitter account acknowledges this) - drivers which may or may not work and which are coded slower than a team of bright secondary school kids could manage.

So the idea they even bother with certification or add an intrusive and ugly logo saying "testing only" is pretty dumb - and I think AMD calling their drivers "beta" is just a cheap way of them trying to avoid support and trying to kid people that they shouldn't expect their drivers to work because they are only a "beta". But there is no true "beta" process taking place, they don't communicate with their customers they just create myriad stupid forms to fill in (and, if anything, their driver development has slowed down since they started releasing them so now you only get "beta" drivers for months)

As the proverb says "You can't polish an AMD driver development team." :(
Michael님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 1월 18일 오전 2시 16분
Evil Penguin 2013년 1월 18일 오전 8시 31분 
AMD is aware of the performance issues, but it doesn't mean they are working on fixing them any time soon.
Letalis Sonus 2013년 1월 21일 오후 12시 44분 
Please call it fglrx or Catalyst. Radeon is the official name of the free driver.
Muffinabus 2013년 1월 21일 오후 2시 21분 
Heh, in my experience Radeon has been used to refer to the brand of video cards for the past decade or so.
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