Dusty0 6. mar 2013 kl. 6:43am
What is going to happen with Steam when MIR gets forced on Ubuntu users?
I havn't used Ubuntu as a main OS in years, but I kow there are many who do. Steam was wrote for X, and with the Steam Box coming will it be running Ubuntu or another distro now? There is another piece to the Steam puzzle, we have yet to see if Nvidia or AMD will support MIR. Since Nvidia and AMD will not support Wayland will they show the same reluctance with MIR? Lets be honest the open source drivers are good for basic computer usage, but if your going to game you need proprietary drivers.
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Shark 6. mar 2013 kl. 6:47am 
I expect Valve to keep on using X for a while, 12.04 has 5 years of support.
Tux9656 (systemd killed linux) 6. mar 2013 kl. 7:09am 
Steam will support other Linux distros just as well as it support Ubuntu now long before Ubuntu completely switches to MIR. If it really becomes a huge issue, I would bet a group of people would fork Ubuntu to use X.
jedimastergoff 6. mar 2013 kl. 7:15am 
I hope they end up moving to something that isn't X, to be honest.

X is... well, X is just bad
CarrotDick 6. mar 2013 kl. 7:27am 
So, here's the thing.

After that IRC convo, it seems reasonable to think that Mir could support Wayland. Keep in mind, Wayland is simply a protocol. In fact, during development of Mir, they may expose some API or protocol changes that Wayland could mirror or could accept a patch for... that would allow Mir to be a backend for Wayland. Display server competition could be interesting. Or in this case, irrelevant.

If they both wind up supporting or being able to support Android drivers (which Wayland supported contends is possible), what's the worst that happens? We get a bad implementation in Mir? That sucks, hopefully Wayland gets traction with other distros.

My question is, why would everyone want to implement /another/ backend after everyone just spent... a pretty long time... adding support for Wayland?

Frankly, that's what I'd like to hear, what do GNOME, Qt folks think about this? I guess Canonical is supposedly going to do that work, it seems like they could spend that money far more wisely on just making Unity Next "the best damn compositor and environment ever (TM)" and that would be exciting. The only Qt desktop we have now is KDE, which is great in a lot of ways, and not in a lot of other ways. Razor-qt is cool, but I find it... lacking. Unity and HUD are really cool ideas, even if you don't like Unity, try out HUD. As a dev, it's beyond brilliant. Never hunt for a menu item, ever, ever, ever again.

Anyway, let's hope that the pressure on NVIDIA/AMD enables drivers that both Wayland/weston and Mir/Unity could utilize.
Sidst redigeret af CarrotDick; 6. mar 2013 kl. 7:29am
Shark 6. mar 2013 kl. 7:57am 
Wayland will not accept Mir.
CarrotDick 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:00am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Wouter:
Wayland will not accept Mir.

Huh? Are you saying the devs won't? Are you saying something in the protocol is fundamentally wrong? My thoughts were more or less validated as possible based on what Wayland is and what Mir could be extended to do. And vice-versa.
Shark 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:02am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Linux Atheisto:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Wouter:
Wayland will not accept Mir.

Huh? Are you saying the devs won't? Are you saying something in the protocol is fundamentally wrong? My thoughts were more or less validated as possible based on what Wayland is and what Mir could be extended to do. And vice-versa.
No, the wayland devs were just not very happy with Canonical suddenly pushing out a ton of code for Mir without ever communicating with them.
CarrotDick 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:06am 
Right, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the technical feasibility of having Mir support the Wayland protocol. There's no reason it can't. It could be done with no help from "the wayland devs". Or, it could be done with the devs, and Mir and Wayland could implement a nearly similar protocol, support the same drivers, and everyone could benefit from two similarly capable protocols.

That's to say nothing about whether that will happen, or how hates who or whatever telephone-chained politics-schtuff is or isn't really going on. /shrug
Sidst redigeret af CarrotDick; 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:07am
soggof 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:35am 
to answer to the original answer, I wouldn't worry about that. Even if one day there will be a working stable Mir/Wayland/Whatever it will still be possible to run X applications via X Server. Quoting from the roadmap in the Mir specifications: "For the desktop/laptop form-factor, we want to fully replace X in user sessions and provide a legacy mode that allows to run legacy X clients against an on-demand rootless X server"
SUSEd 6. mar 2013 kl. 8:52am 
Now steam uses Steam Runtime to be compatible with other distros. Then it will be used to be compatible with Ubuntu.
ash 6. mar 2013 kl. 9:02am 
The day there is actually a functional Wayland or Mir that runs all the programs I expect to run under X, has hardware-accelerated graphics and video, and fixes problems with X while not introducing new ones, is the day I'll worry about any of this. Right now Mir is barely a fart and Wayland is approaching vaporware in terms of real functionality.
Selthus 6. mar 2013 kl. 9:35am 
More duplication of effort and fragmentation.
Col.Burke [Linux] 6. mar 2013 kl. 10:07am 
Mir is not this thing that will pop up tomorow. It will be a while from now.
You big problem to worry about will be wayland and how distro will or will not make the switch.
There may be a way for the steam to decet and apply the relative files for you or there may be 3 options, Mir x.org and wayland. Download the relative option
s.plisskin [Archlinux] 6. mar 2013 kl. 10:26am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Wouter:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Linux Atheisto:

Huh? Are you saying the devs won't? Are you saying something in the protocol is fundamentally wrong? My thoughts were more or less validated as possible based on what Wayland is and what Mir could be extended to do. And vice-versa.
No, the wayland devs were just not very happy with Canonical suddenly pushing out a ton of code for Mir without ever communicating with them.

I think the Wayland devs were more annoyed by the FUD Ubuntu/Canonical were using as justifications to abandon Wayland for their in house project mir. It's Ubuntu's NIH syndrom at work. Also if you followed the IRC conversation, Ubuntu/Canonical really came across as ♥♥♥♥♥ and amateurs.
Sidst redigeret af s.plisskin [Archlinux]; 6. mar 2013 kl. 10:27am
blackout24 6. mar 2013 kl. 10:28am 
Their toy display server won't see the light of day anyway in the next year. Wayland is developed by ex-X.org developers since 2008, who know what they are doing and have lots of experience with low level graphics stuff. Kristian Hoegsberg works fulltime for Intel on this.

Mir is developed by a handful of Canonical n00bs who have no clue about display server stuff. They know so little about it that they even got their stuff they complained about with Wayland all wrong. Just look at their TODO list on Launchpad and they want to implement it by October this year. If anything they will release some clusterf*ck like Unity 11.04 that is even worse than X and not even remotely on par with Wayland in terms of features. And let's not forget that it is unlikely that both AMD and NVIDIA just start supporting something that looks like it's going to be Dead on Arrival anyway. Unless Canonical wants you to play with open source Intel and Radeon driver. You can't even ues Mir with open source nvidia drivers. Even if NVIDIA supports it AMD is so slow it will take them ages. This means they alienate half of the Linux Steam Community.

Ask yourself why there are 25 windows manager 6 desktop enviroments 8 login managers 7 shells probably 20 terminal emulators but only 1 display server and 1 kernel? Becuase 1. it isn't trivial to pull a display server of 2. fragmentation is ♥♥♥♥♥♥*t on the lowest level where everyone rather has 1 good solution. To bad braindead developers at Canonical don't get that. It's just about being an Apple like control freak for them.

There is not one developer that doesn't work for Canonical that actually thinks Mir is a good idea. Mhh wonder why that's the case...
Sidst redigeret af blackout24; 6. mar 2013 kl. 10:47am
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