Obsidian Spirit Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:20pm
WTF is this?!
I'm honestly shocked at what the hell is going on here. I haven't seen so much activity on these forums for a long time, and at first I was really happy to see that so many new comers are trying out linux. But that soon turned to disgust as I realize that people are doing a huge disservice to Ubuntu, to the Valve Linux team and also to them selves.

People have no idea what Ubuntu is and why people have been using it for several years prior to even getting a whiff of Valves migration.

They haven't followed these forums and thus can't even begin to imagine how hard the Valve for Linux team has been working to port Steam and make other titles available to us.

Lastly, there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s out there that are creating whole guides on "How to get Tux without having to keep Linux".

Please excuse me if I'm wrong but I believed this whole project was much bigger than a ♥♥♥♥ing cosmetic item. I'm really happy that Tux is non-tradable, at least this way we can maximize on the people who truly care about this project.
Last edited by Obsidian Spirit; Feb 16, 2013 @ 6:28pm
Showing 1-15 of 50 comments
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CarrotDick Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:33pm 
It's easier to not care. A few will convert. Some just want Tux. At the very least it gives Valve a broader look at software/hardware combos and bugs.

Yes, it's silly. But it's really not worth being upset.
[dirrty]gsharp Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:35pm 
Blade, step back and take breath. Yes, we are getting a flood of TF2 hat seekers. That's to be expected. There really is no point in getting upset about them. I like a good rage session as much as the next person but they just aren't worth it. Let them sink or swim. Save your rage for something good. (Fedora 18 installer, for example!)

This project is bigger than a hat. 90+ games ported to Linux and growing. This is way, WAY bigger than a lousy hat. With Valve cranking out the Steam for Linux client and users in this forum cranking out install guides, wiki pages, and other forms of assistance, we can do some serious good here.

Hang in there.
Obsidian Spirit Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:38pm 
Its not worth losing any sleep over, I get that. But many people on these forums have actually been waiting for valve to release their games on Linux. Its actually a really big deal for native linux users. Ofcourse not the highlight of my life, but when an uninvited person comes into your home and creates trouble, it can be very frustrating.
Obsidian Spirit Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:39pm 
Of course, you guys are right. I will not argue. I just wanted to put it out there.
rudeboyskunk Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:42pm 
Don't worry about it mate, at first I was super-♥♥♥♥♥♥ like you, but I've noticed a lot of these newcomers saying they find Linux interesting and want to stick around, and honestly if 1 out of every 1000 newcomers sticks around, it's totally worth all the trouble. That's one less Windows user and 1 more Linux user.
Obsidian Spirit Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:44pm 
Did not think about it that way. One less Windows Zombie, one more Free Human. Love the sound of that. =P
barsanuphe le sec Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:55pm 
I get it that one could find it a little sad that people are trying linux and only keeping it just long enough to launch tf2 and get tux. But at least they know linux exists and also they know how to install it. They will have seen it's not just a green terminal like in bad hollywood movies. The linux meme infects the brain. That's what's important.
s.plisskin [Archlinux] Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:59pm 
A lot of people will stick around i think, once they get the hang of things. I think the exposure is a good thing. Once the Windows hardship hits them bad enough, they'll remember that GNU/Linux thing and come back and give a more serious look.
im muted 4 n0thing Feb 16, 2013 @ 6:01pm 
Windows Zombie

If you know what you are doing, its impossible to get in a botnet..

Windows have lot of security program,
like sandbox, blocking previleges, hids,hips,ids,virtualisation system like returnil, if you take the time, you can't be infected for ever ^^
Antivirus is outdated in windows environement.
Last edited by im muted 4 n0thing; Feb 16, 2013 @ 6:05pm
rudeboyskunk Feb 16, 2013 @ 6:06pm 
Originally posted by GLou glou le pingouin:
Windows Zombie

If you know what you are doing, its impossible to get in a botnet..

Windows have lot of security program,
like sandbox, blocking previleges, hids,hips,ids,virtualisation system like returnil or comode time machine, if you take the time, you can't be infected for ever ^^

Antivirus is outdated in windows environement.

Or you could use Linux and not worry about installing any of that stuff.
Seely Feb 16, 2013 @ 7:57pm 
Hey chill, it doesn't really matter. I thought the same at first to be honest, but now I don't care who installed Ubuntu, this is partly the reason why it's free and open. The ones who will be able to see the beauty of a linux based operating system because of a Tux on tf2 will keep it and will encourage further support, but those whoa are not willing will uninstall right away and you won't hear of them again. I think Tux is an awesome gesture from Gabe.
Michael Feb 16, 2013 @ 8:24pm 
Originally posted by Obsidian Blade:
I'm honestly shocked at what the hell is going on here. I haven't seen so much activity on these forums for a long time, and at first I was really happy to see that so many new comers are trying out linux. But that soon turned to disgust as I realize that people are doing a huge disservice to Ubuntu, to the Valve Linux team and also to them selves.

People have no idea what Ubuntu is and why people have been using it for several years prior to even getting a whiff of Valves migration.

They haven't followed these forums and thus can't even begin to imagine how hard the Valve for Linux team has been working to port Steam and make other titles available to us.

Lastly, there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s out there that are creating whole guides on "How to get Tux without having to keep Linux".

Please excuse me if I'm wrong but I believed this whole project was much bigger than a ♥♥♥♥ing cosmetic item. I'm really happy that Tux is non-tradable, at least this way we can maximize on the people who truly care about this project.

Err, reality check.

The truth right now is, Ubuntu is something that's still not that good for playing steam games on.

This is especially true with respect to Team Fortress 2 the game which gets this cosmetic item you dislike so much.

I've switched 2 machines here to linux, one to try the beta and the 2nd because of my son's interest when this announcement that it's now released happened.

My machine is relatively modest c2d e8400/HD6850/4gb. It should play all of games without issues (as it does on windows) but it doesn't yet on linux.

My son's machine, i5 2500k/HD5850/8gb should play all of them, even if William WasteCycles and Ian Inefficiency had ported them. But it doesn't. Arguably that's a techical
achievement all of its own. "Take this quad core 8gb machine and this 5 year old game and make it so the game feels as though you're playing on a 7600gt/xp3200"

Initially using wubi installs (which, in itself, is something that should just work that they've neglected)

Then shrinking windows partitions to create native ext4 partitions and the sad thing is, few, if any of the games work without issues, glitches or, worst of all, performance problems.

Neither of the machines will play TF2 smoothly using ubuntu.

So, the thing that surprises me is that this isn't a beta - because it's a reasonable amount of hassle, fraught wih potential screwups to put linux onto an existing windows machine, so I'm not surprised if people are trying to avoid it or are having problems with it or if, having done it they are underwhelmed by the results.

Because I knew what the results were going to be and I was still underwhelmed.

During the process, it managed to hose either my linux install or windows install from booting at least twice each in the course of moving a wubi install to a native one.

Even now I'm having to boot from grub using the command line because ubuntu's ugly mess in /etc/grub.d/ insists the windows install is LDM (it's not) and I see the only cure here to start dd'ing zeros to random disk sectors (which the first time I did I forgot to change skip to seek and destroyed the partition table, then I had to start using bcdedit on another machine to convince windows to boot from a perfectly valid new partition table. My screw up, of course, but caused mainly because of grub2's rather asinine attempts to be clever (rather than just looking at the partition table, seeing it's type 07 not 42 and treating the disk like msdos not ldm) and ubuntu's rather ugly ideas behind automating these things.

It's ironic that to boot windows I can type 3 short lines

set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
boot

at a prompt and yet ubuntu has a script about half a page long (that's wrong and just gives me a 'device not found, press ctrl-alt-del' error - and even the ctrl-alt-del thing isn't true, pressing it does nothing) and mountains of code and scripts to create the page of crap that doesn't boot the system properly.

I started downloading the source for some of it and realised it's not worth fixing, just delete it all and create your own 3 line config file.

So yeah, I did the full gamut of mount.ntfs using 90+% cpu under wubi (dunno why don't they fix this), inaccessible boot device 0x000007b and 0xc000000e errors booting windows, as well as the script that rsynced my wubi install to /dev/sda2 switching /sbin/initctl to /bin/true and then dying with an error (grub deciding it didn't like LDM) without switching it back - leaving me at one point with no os to boot into - and /bin/true doesn't exactly spit out error messages does it?

All fun, if you know how to dig yourself out of the hole created, but when you do that only to realise that one of the jewels in the crown of Valve's initiative doesn't even work well under linux yet, it feels like a waste of time.
Last edited by Michael; Feb 16, 2013 @ 8:36pm
[Linux]sulman Feb 16, 2013 @ 8:41pm 
Originally posted by Yabba:

Err, reality check.

The truth right now is, Ubuntu is something that's still not that good for playing steam games on.

This is especially true with respect to Team Fortress 2 the game which gets this cosmetic item you dislike so much.

I've switched 2 machines here to linux, one to try the beta and the 2nd because of my son's interest when this announcement that it's now released happened.

My machine is relatively modest c2d e8400/HD6850/4gb. It should play all of games without issues (as it does on windows) but it doesn't yet on linux.

My son's machine, i5 2500k/HD5850 should play all of them, even if William WasteCycles and Ian Inefficiency had programmed them. But it doesn't.

Initially using wubi installs (which, in itself, is something that should just work that they've just neglected)

Then shrinking windows partitions to create native ext4 partitions and the sad thing is, few, if any of the games work without issues, glitches or, worst of all, performance problems.

Neither of the machines will play TF2 smoothly using ubuntu.

So, the thing that surprises me is that this isn't a beta - because it's a reasonable amount of hassle, fraught wih potential screwups to put linux onto an existing windows machine, which I'm not surprised if people are trying to avoid or are having problems with.

I, together with the brighest brains MS and the open source community managed to muster, managed to hose either my linux install or windows from booting around 3 times each in the course of moving a wubi install to a native one.

Even now I'm having to boot from grub using the command line because ubuntu's ugly mess in /etc/grub.d/ insists the windows install is LDM (it's not) and I see the only cure here to start dd'ing zeros to random disk sectors (which the first time I did I forgot to change skip to seek and destroyed the partition table, then I had to start using bcdedit on another machine to convince windows to boot from a perfectly valid new partition table. My screw up, of course, but caused mainly because of grub2's rather asinine attempts to be clever (rather than just looking at the partition type, seeing it's 07 not 42 and treating the disk like msdos not ldm) and ubuntu's rather ugly ideas behind automating these things.

It's ironic that to boot windows I can type

set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
boot

at a prompt and yet ubuntu has a script about a page long (that's wrong and just gives me a 'device not found, press ctrl-alt-del' error - and even the ctrl-alt-del thing isn't true, pressing it does nothing) and mountains of code and scripts to create the page of crap.

I started downloading the source for some of it and realised it's not worth fixing, just delete it all and create your own 3 line config file.

So yeah, I did the full gamut of mount.ntfs using 90+% cpu under wubi (dunno why don't they fix this), inaccessible boot device 0x000007b and 0xc000000e errors booting windows, as well as the script that rsynced my wubi install to /dev/sda2 switching /sbin/initctl to /bin/true and then dying with an error (grub deciding it didn't like LDM) leaving me at one point with no os to boot into.

All fun, if you know how to dig yourself out of the hole created, but when you do that only to realise that one of the jewels in the crown of Valve's initiative doesn't even work well under linux yet, it feels like a waste of time.

Hmm. I understand where you're coming from, but it's equally true to say that the majority of people are having no problems at all.

Yes, there are some platforms that aren't getting good performance from TF2, and yes installing to an existing Windows partition is risky, but nobody is forcing anyone to do that. Any OS is a bear on an existing setup - Windows 7/8 is quite particular about where it goes too.

Frankly, screwing around with Windows partitions to get Linux on is just a bad idea, and it is asking for trouble. As for LDM - yes, Linux installers don't always like it. Red Hat anaconda is exactly the same, I know it's annoying but there you go.
rudeboyskunk Feb 16, 2013 @ 9:47pm 
Originally posted by Yabba:
Originally posted by Obsidian Blade:
I'm honestly shocked at what the hell is going on here. I haven't seen so much activity on these forums for a long time, and at first I was really happy to see that so many new comers are trying out linux. But that soon turned to disgust as I realize that people are doing a huge disservice to Ubuntu, to the Valve Linux team and also to them selves.

People have no idea what Ubuntu is and why people have been using it for several years prior to even getting a whiff of Valves migration.

They haven't followed these forums and thus can't even begin to imagine how hard the Valve for Linux team has been working to port Steam and make other titles available to us.

Lastly, there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s out there that are creating whole guides on "How to get Tux without having to keep Linux".

Please excuse me if I'm wrong but I believed this whole project was much bigger than a ♥♥♥♥ing cosmetic item. I'm really happy that Tux is non-tradable, at least this way we can maximize on the people who truly care about this project.

Err, reality check.

The truth right now is, Ubuntu is something that's still not that good for playing steam games on.

This is especially true with respect to Team Fortress 2 the game which gets this cosmetic item you dislike so much.

I've switched 2 machines here to linux, one to try the beta and the 2nd because of my son's interest when this announcement that it's now released happened.

My machine is relatively modest c2d e8400/HD6850/4gb. It should play all of games without issues (as it does on windows) but it doesn't yet on linux.

My son's machine, i5 2500k/HD5850/8gb should play all of them, even if William WasteCycles and Ian Inefficiency had ported them. But it doesn't. Arguably that's a techical
achievement all of its own. "Take this quad core 8gb machine and this 5 year old game and make it so the game feels as though you're playing on a 7600gt/xp3200"

Initially using wubi installs (which, in itself, is something that should just work that they've neglected)

Then shrinking windows partitions to create native ext4 partitions and the sad thing is, few, if any of the games work without issues, glitches or, worst of all, performance problems.

Neither of the machines will play TF2 smoothly using ubuntu.

So, the thing that surprises me is that this isn't a beta - because it's a reasonable amount of hassle, fraught wih potential screwups to put linux onto an existing windows machine, so I'm not surprised if people are trying to avoid it or are having problems with it or if, having done it they are underwhelmed by the results.

Because I knew what the results were going to be and I was still underwhelmed.

During the process, it managed to hose either my linux install or windows install from booting at least twice each in the course of moving a wubi install to a native one.

Even now I'm having to boot from grub using the command line because ubuntu's ugly mess in /etc/grub.d/ insists the windows install is LDM (it's not) and I see the only cure here to start dd'ing zeros to random disk sectors (which the first time I did I forgot to change skip to seek and destroyed the partition table, then I had to start using bcdedit on another machine to convince windows to boot from a perfectly valid new partition table. My screw up, of course, but caused mainly because of grub2's rather asinine attempts to be clever (rather than just looking at the partition table, seeing it's type 07 not 42 and treating the disk like msdos not ldm) and ubuntu's rather ugly ideas behind automating these things.

It's ironic that to boot windows I can type 3 short lines

set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader +1
boot

at a prompt and yet ubuntu has a script about half a page long (that's wrong and just gives me a 'device not found, press ctrl-alt-del' error - and even the ctrl-alt-del thing isn't true, pressing it does nothing) and mountains of code and scripts to create the page of crap that doesn't boot the system properly.

I started downloading the source for some of it and realised it's not worth fixing, just delete it all and create your own 3 line config file.

So yeah, I did the full gamut of mount.ntfs using 90+% cpu under wubi (dunno why don't they fix this), inaccessible boot device 0x000007b and 0xc000000e errors booting windows, as well as the script that rsynced my wubi install to /dev/sda2 switching /sbin/initctl to /bin/true and then dying with an error (grub deciding it didn't like LDM) without switching it back - leaving me at one point with no os to boot into - and /bin/true doesn't exactly spit out error messages does it?

All fun, if you know how to dig yourself out of the hole created, but when you do that only to realise that one of the jewels in the crown of Valve's initiative doesn't even work well under linux yet, it feels like a waste of time.

Yeah, and Windows SHOULD not allow you to have viruses. It SHOULD not allow you to have malware. It SHOULD bla bla bla. You're saying that Linux SHOULD be a Windows clone. Just because Windows does something a certain way doesn't mean Linux SHOULD do it that way too.
Obsidian Spirit Feb 16, 2013 @ 10:29pm 
Okay Yabba, ty for taking the time to write that out. I just want to say first of all that after having difficulties with Linux, you may not feel the same about the OS and the software available on it.

However, I just want to bring a few notes to your attention. As many others will say on these threads and on countless other threads, installing Ubuntu through Wubi is a rough patch of road. It was created so that people who don't want to leave Win can easily experience the look and feel of Ubuntu. Make sure their favorite websites load up without any hitch. They can access email and watch a video everynow and then on Youtube.

It does NOT give an honest impression of what Gaming on Ubuntu would be like. You have to keep in mind that Steam for Linux was just released 2 days ago. Wubi, prior to this, could give a good estimate of linux's general computing power. NOT its gaming power.

Secondly, I noticed that in both of your machines, you have AMD GPU's installed. GPU Vendors have always held back in terms of latest driver releases for linux. That is until valve began working on their migration. Nvidia was first in line, obviously, and released up to date drivers for linux users which I can testify, greatly improved the gaming capabilities of my rig. AMD however have always been the laggard. Two weeks ago however, they did announce that their new drivers will increase performance in games such as Tf2. I suggest you read this article to see how you can install the latest drivers, if you havn't already done so:

http://ubuntuxtreme.com/news/amd-catalyst-13-2-beta-3-driver-up-to-300-performance/

Lastly, Valve themselves did several tests on Linux prior to even releasing the Beta version of steam. Since in your post you state that you only heard about this recently, I would like to divert your attention to this article written by the Valve for Linux team themselves:

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

Valve themselves announced that their games run much better on Linux then on Windows. This is because of the efficiency of the underlying Kernel as well as the amazing community driven OpenGL.

Its sad to see that you are having problems with Linux. But don't give up on it, I never said I hate Tux. I didn't even say I get annoyed by people who are having such issues. In fact, I honestly happy that you decided to post about it here and would love to be able to help you set up your computer with Ubuntu. The people I do have a quarrel with would not bother to go through as much trouble as you have to give Linux a shot, and trust me once you get it up and running you will NEVER want to go back to Windows. Ever.
Last edited by Obsidian Spirit; Feb 16, 2013 @ 10:31pm
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Date Posted: Feb 16, 2013 @ 5:20pm
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