Doc Holliday Apr 12, 2013 @ 4:51pm
Mir is just a fork of Carsten Munk work Libhybris
Mir is just a fork of Carsten Munk work Libhybris it was funny as hell to see what he wrote

Carsten Munk wrote
"Earlier this year however, I discovered that a well-known company had taken the code - disappeared underground with it for several months, improved upon it, utilized the capability in their advertisements and demos and in the end posted the code utilizing their own source control system, detached from any state of that of the upstream project's. Even to the extent some posters around the web thought libhybris was done by that company itself.

That kind of behavior ruined the initial reason I open sourced libhybris in the first place and I was shocked to the point that I contemplated to by default not open source my hobby projects any more. It's not cool for companies to do things like this, no matter your commercial reasons. It ruins it for all of us who want to strengthen the open source ecosystem. We could have really used your improvements and patches earlier on instead of struggling with some of these issues"
http://mer-project.blogspot.com/
Wayland on Ardriod http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wInZgLolKgo
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM0OTE
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
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Doc Holliday Apr 12, 2013 @ 4:52pm 
"What many people don’t understand about Linux development is that it’s truly a team effort:
Red Hat develops the kernel,
Novell develops the applications,
Debian does the packaging,
and Ubuntu takes the credit!

—Joke found on a bathroom stall at LinuxWorld Boston 2005 "
s.plisskin [Archlinux] Apr 12, 2013 @ 5:26pm 
Originally posted by Nemesis:
"What many people don’t understand about Linux development is that it’s truly a team effort:
Red Hat develops the kernel,
Novell develops the applications,
Debian does the packaging,
and Ubuntu takes the credit!

—Joke found on a bathroom stall at LinuxWorld Boston 2005 "

A joke with a liberal splash of truth.
Cybertao Apr 12, 2013 @ 6:38pm 
Not surprised. Canonical are already beneath my contempt.
Tweakedenigma Apr 12, 2013 @ 8:27pm 
Although I agree what Canonical did here was uncalled for I do find it suspect you left out this part of the post

"But, I will say that their behavior has improved - they are now participating in the project, discussing, upstreaming patches that are useful. And I forgive them because they've changed their ways and are participating sanely now."
sounds like a wooosh Apr 12, 2013 @ 11:39pm 
What others do not understand is that Canonical is a very small company – and they do not develop "Linux" – but make GNU usable (well, on Linux). I won't say that other distributions do not try to make GNU useable as well – but Canonical really do a good job with their legal work on Debian!

I know that Suse and others do a great job on working on the kernel and other core stuff… but that does not minder the work of Canonical on others sides of the user-experience in my view!

I remember some envious announcements from other distributions in the past – and I simply can not understand why they did that to be honest! – There is no need in that!

Making a "good software collection" that is usable for the end-user is a huge job! – It is not enough to just work on the kernel (the true Linux). – Only a handful of developers would be able to use Linux if there were no GNU or no handy distributions.

Just let everyone do the right jobs – and credit them in a good way! Otherwise you only bite in your own tongue in the end!
Cybertao Apr 13, 2013 @ 12:11am 
I was Canonical's #1 fan before they started with their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
They didn't just fork a project and take it underground for Ubuntu-centric (not Linux) development. They completely dissed Wayland without justification and have been acting anti-competitively.
Oerthling Jun 9, 2013 @ 2:46am 
Originally posted by Cybertao:
They completely dissed Wayland without justification and have been acting anti-competitively.

I get why people think that Canonical sometimes sucks at communication.

But how is taking "open" source, modifying it and then releasing that again as "open" source anti-competitive?

Canonical is actually being pro-competitive with this move. That's the main thing they get criticized for actually - they added competition to Wayland.
Keeping Canonical from being free to do so would actually be the "anti-competitive" move.

Technically and legally Canonical did *nothing* wrong here. Just like Carsten Munk did nothing wrong when he modified existing open code. That's the whole point of having source open to begin with. Everybody can re-use and modify it.

Canonical only made a psychological mistake here. It's a perception problem that they should have foreseen and might have handled better then.

Sure Canonical is a commercial company (or at least it tries to be - AFAIK it still only survives because Mark Shuttleworth keeps it alive with his personal wealth) - but that doesn't close the source just because they touched it. Almost all the stuff that Canonical sponsors is also released as open source.

I'm not always happy with Canonicals decisions (not the biggest fan of Unity and I hate global menus with a vengeance) - but I don't understand why people ♥♥♥♥♥ about them so much. We are given *great* software for the low low low price of $0. We don't even have to contribute to development or testing if we don't want to. Don't even have to put up with ads (which is how we *pay* for other "free" services like TV or Google search).

And there's so many alternative distros (another thing people keep ♥♥♥♥♥ing about ;-) ). If one doesn't like the way Ubuntu is going or just dislikes the company behind it - easy - switch to Mint, Debian, Fedora, Arch, Suse or whatever comes closest to what you want/need.
Doc Holliday Jun 9, 2013 @ 6:39am 
Originally posted by JUSTME:
Originally posted by Cybertao:
They completely dissed Wayland without justification and have been acting anti-competitively.
Carsten Munk did nothing wrong when he modified existing open code
Carsten Munk is the one who wrote the code Mir is based off from and do to what Canonical did to the code he says now he is no longer going to open source any more code he did not have to Opensource it at all in the first place
and give me a list of "all the stuff that first place sponsors is also released as open source" i like to see it
Canonical is a Corporation just out to make cash any way it can even if it's adding spyware into Ubuntu or Lying its butt off you dont see spyware in Mint, Debian, Fedora, Arch, or Suse.
Fedora and Suse Mint are backed by Corporation's as well but no spyware and you dont see them trying to move away form the Linux ecosystem Canonical is trying to Kill Off
CompanionTube Jun 9, 2013 @ 7:30am 
this forum is for STEAM FOR LINUX.... fanboi gossip goes in /r/linux
bleedingpixel Jun 9, 2013 @ 12:29pm 
ubuntu is so lame, they don't ever contribute back and now they are refusing to use wayland and going with mir.. which looks like they didn't aren't even contributing back to..
edit: looks like they made some peace with munk but still ♥♥♥♥ move
Shark Jun 9, 2013 @ 3:03pm 
I guess canonical doesn't really get that open source means that you give credit to everybody who worked on the project.
Fibbles Jun 9, 2013 @ 3:20pm 
Originally posted by Wouter:
I guess canonical doesn't really get that open source means that you give credit to everybody who worked on the project.

Open source simply means that the source is viewable by anyone who wants to see it, nothing more. The GPL says you've got to make the source (and any modifications you've made,) freely available with your software. Nowhere does it say you've got to give credit.

I think the only thing more annoying than the Stallman die-hards are the teenagers who must rage against anything that's popular.

"I use Linux because I'm different and edgy!"
"Oh, I use linux too. My son installed Ubuntu for me."
"No! That's not true Linux! Linux is my super secret elite club and you're not allowed to be part of it because then I'd be no different from anyone else!

If the Debian installer ever becomes 'Mom-Friendly' there's gonna be so much butthurt on their forums.
timetopat Jun 10, 2013 @ 3:05am 
Originally posted by Fibbles:
Originally posted by Wouter:
I guess canonical doesn't really get that open source means that you give credit to everybody who worked on the project.

Open source simply means that the source is viewable by anyone who wants to see it, nothing more. The GPL says you've got to make the source (and any modifications you've made,) freely available with your software. Nowhere does it say you've got to give credit.

I think the only thing more annoying than the Stallman die-hards are the teenagers who must rage against anything that's popular.

"I use Linux because I'm different and edgy!"
"Oh, I use linux too. My son installed Ubuntu for me."
"No! That's not true Linux! Linux is my super secret elite club and you're not allowed to be part of it because then I'd be no different from anyone else!

If the Debian installer ever becomes 'Mom-Friendly' there's gonna be so much butthurt on their forums.

Debian is so mainstream man, its all about that trisquel
gognoscranes Jun 10, 2013 @ 5:39am 
Originally posted by Doc Holliday:
Mir is just a fork of Carsten Munk work Libhybris it was funny as hell to see what he wrote

Carsten Munk wrote
"Earlier this year however, I discovered that a well-known company had taken the code - disappeared underground with it for several months, improved upon it, utilized the capability in their advertisements and demos and in the end posted the code utilizing their own source control system, detached from any state of that of the upstream project's. Even to the extent some posters around the web thought libhybris was done by that company itself.

That kind of behavior ruined the initial reason I open sourced libhybris in the first place and I was shocked to the point that I contemplated to by default not open source my hobby projects any more. It's not cool for companies to do things like this, no matter your commercial reasons. It ruins it for all of us who want to strengthen the open source ecosystem. We could have really used your improvements and patches earlier on instead of struggling with some of these issues"
http://mer-project.blogspot.com/
Wayland on Ardriod http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wInZgLolKgo
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM0OTE

Such selective quoting

"But, I will say that their behavior has improved - they are now participating in the project, discussing, upstreaming patches that are useful. And I forgive them because they've changed their ways and are participating sanely now."



Originally posted by Doc Holliday:
Originally posted by JUSTME:
Carsten Munk did nothing wrong when he modified existing open code
Carsten Munk is the one who wrote the code Mir is based off from and do to what Canonical did to the code he says now he is no longer going to open source any more code he did not have to Opensource it at all in the first place
and give me a list of "all the stuff that first place sponsors is also released as open source" i like to see it
Canonical is a Corporation just out to make cash any way it can even if it's adding spyware into Ubuntu or Lying its butt off you dont see spyware in Mint, Debian, Fedora, Arch, or Suse.
Fedora and Suse Mint are backed by Corporation's as well but no spyware and you dont see them trying to move away form the Linux ecosystem Canonical is trying to Kill Off

"Mir relies on the libhybris library to use the Android drivers. This allows the drivers to use the bionic libc while Mir itself uses the standard GNU libc" O look here they mentioning it on the source page giving credit http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/index.html Making statements like Mir is based off libhybris shows that you are not only canonical troll but a stupid one at that.
ash Jun 10, 2013 @ 5:48am 
Originally posted by Bitcrusher:
ubuntu is so lame, they don't ever contribute back and now they are refusing to use wayland and going with mir.. which looks like they didn't aren't even contributing back to..
The attitudes that a whole bunch of people who supposedly support open source and free software have towards wayland and mir drive me crazy. In the open-source world, the users ultimately determine what technology wins, not proclamations from on high about what the offical winner will be. If wayland is better than X and better than mir, people will gravitate towards it. If mir is better, people will use it. If X remains the best (and I think this is by far the most likely scenario), wayland and mir will wither and die. All of this whining about "fragmentation" and "refusing to use wayland" completely misses the point of free software.

The funniest thing about it is that the arguing is over two products (wayland and mir) that don't even exist in a usable state. Try running Half-Life 2 on Wayland/Weston/Whatever-the-hell. Call me back in five years when anything but X has driver support.
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Date Posted: Apr 12, 2013 @ 4:51pm
Posts: 16