Running old hardware and expecting miracles?

[SHONUFF!!!]

It seems like there are a lot of people posting issues about fairly new games but when asked for hardware specs it seems they are running ancient machines. I was wondering:

1. How many of us are using linux and expecting miracles?
2. How many of these posters provide dialogue or answer posts provide misleading information based on their personal experience with old hardware?
3. Who or how many expect to use old hardware on Linux and be able to run modern upto-date games effortlessly?
4. Overall, are linux users cheap? Honest question due to the number of misinformed who seem to want to run graphically intense games on 10 year old specs.

Think of putting a porsche engine in a 80's Ford Escort... yeah, it'll run fast but... it's not going to handle very well. While you can run games on linux better with old hardware than if it were with Windows... there has to be an expectation for serious limitations.

*We need a rant section to this forum.

Ok, last thing... stop posting negative crap saying Wine is not working when you know or fail to provide readers with the fact that you run a 1998 Toshiba Portege!

Continue to use linux; however, save up your money, get new hardware and do not expect miracles with old hardware.

[Drako Frost]

I think that using old hardware is common between Linux users. This is not limited to Steam, in most sites dedicated to Linux, specially foruns, users with old hardware usually prevails. This may be partially because the average users don't buy Windows, they simply buy a new computer that comes with the latest version of Windows, and since Linux users download their own OS's, they don't buy new machines very often. This is ok if you just browse the web, or do simple tasks, but for graphic demanding games is totally unacceptable.


Usually gaming PC's have a lifespan of 3 years, maybe 4 or 5, if it is a very high end machine, or you keep upgrading them.

[Davey Darko]

I'm agnostic, so I never expect miricles. But Quantum Mechanics shows us that most anything can happen, some things are just extremely unlikely to occur. ;)

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Ghost:

But are you implying there are people who think that suddenly by installing Linux on a very old PC they can play something like The Witcher 2 with decent FPS? I find that hard to believe but I've seen worse on Steam, just not on the Linux forums as much..

No implying at all --lol... I am being quite frank. Quite a few people --where yeah... this was a needed venting. There are people across the linux gamesite spectrum who switch to linux because they think they will get extra benefit from linux because they were told (who they are... not sure) or fell under the belief that linux was a magic cure to archaic architecture.

Furthermore, there are people (not specifically on Steam or this forum) posting and providing advice to noobies about things based upon their wisdom which was developed from out of date hardware... which is fine if they mention what their specs are and stating upfront that "hey, I should not be providing insight on new games and technology but ....here is my limited knowledge from old hardware" By not doing so, they give the idea that linux is the issue when in fact they could not run a game or program due to their personal system weakness or their personal weakness managing linux. Speaking on personal weakness, maybe they don't properly update their system or know how to investigate and install legacy drivers for their geriatric machine... either way they then post accounts based on their flaws. People read this crap and automatically assume it's a linux issue.

For our forum specifically, we have had people (I won't call out) continuously blast intel drivers, wine, you name it, etc. --claiming they provide bad experiences.... then you find out their review is based on old 'stuff' that should only be left for playing playing Mame, Snes9x, Kegafusion, and Mupen64plus.

Usually we read posts and we see people answering them and sometimes wonder...hmm, why aren't the solutions working for this person... Partly from what I posted --that's why. Maybe I am the only person noticing this. I think it may be a bigger issue than what we want to believe. It maybe to the point that we demand to know specs upfront for users machines who make claims or pass advice or knowledge because I do think it effects new linux users overall impression of the OS. Also, those of us who have or think we have the credentials (bona fide through time using linux and can actually fix things through terminal if necessary) should question those posts when we see them before false information is provided to the masses of noobies. Maybe we need a DIGG style thumbs up down rating system for posts and users?

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Ghost:

But are you implying there are people who think that suddenly by installing Linux on a very old PC they can play something like The Witcher 2 with decent FPS? I find that hard to believe but I've seen worse on Steam, just not on the Linux forums as much..

No implying at all --lol... I am being quite frank. Quite a few people where yeah... this was a needed venting. There are people across the linux gamesite spectrum who switch to linux because they think they will get extra benefit from linux because they were told (who they are... not sure) or fell under the belief that linux was a magic cure to archaic architecture.

Furthermore, there are people (not specifically on Steam or this forum) posting and providing advice to noobies about things based upon their wisdom which was developed from out of date hardware... which is fine if they mention what their specs are and stating upfront that "hey, I should not be providing insight on new games and technology but ....here is my limited knowledge from old hardware" By not doing so, they give the idea tthat linux is the issue when in fact they could not run a game or program due to their personal system weakness or their personal weakness managing linux. Speaking on personal weakness, maybe they don't properly update their system or know how to investigate and install legacy drivers... either way they then post accounts based on their flaws. People read this crap and automatically assume it's a linux issue.

For our forum specifically, we have had people (I won't call out) continuously blast intel drivers, wine, you name it, etc. --claiming they provide bad experiences.... then you find out their review is based on old 'stuff' that should only be left for playing playing Mame, Snes9x, Kegafusion, and Mupen64plus.

Usually we read posts and we see people answering them and sometimes wonder...hmm, why aren't the solutions working for this person... Partly from what I posted --that's why. I think we need to demand upfront, post your specs or have it listed under the avatar for your username for the post.

About Intel Graphics: They work fine on Linux, they are actually the most stable and reliable video drivers, but the performance is considerable behind Windows, and this can be an issue. Let's say that you can play XYZ on Windows with 30-40 FPS, on Linux it will be unplayable.

I also agree that in most cases listing the computer's specs is helpful.

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

About Intel Graphics: They work fine on Linux, they are actually the most stable and reliable video driver, but the performance is considerable behind Windows, and this can be an issue. Let's say that you can play XYZ on Windows with 30-40 FPS, on Linux it will be unplayable.

Was only using as an example; but, since you took that piece and wrote about it. Which intel integrated graphics are we specifically discussing?

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

Was only using as an example; but, since you took that piece and wrote about it. Which intel integrated graphics are we specifically discussing?

HD 4000, Ivy Bridge.

CS:GO is unplayable on Linux, but runs satisfactorily on Windows. Just an example.

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

HD 4000, Ivy Bridge.

CS:GO is unplayable on Linux, but runs satisfactorily on Windows. Just an example.

HD 4000 is old.

The Intel Iris Pro 5200 is a different story. You should check it out if you have the oppurtunity. By no means is it Nvidia GTX level but I can play Witcher 2. Also, I play Skyrim on Ultra. So, I am sure CS:GO would not be an issue for the newest Intel integrated... Make sure you leave it on AC when playing or it will stutter for games of that caliber.

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

HD 4000, Ivy Bridge.

CS:GO is unplayable on Linux, but runs satisfactorily on Windows. Just an example.

HD 4000 is old.

The Intel Iris Pro 5200 is a different story. You should check it out if you have the oppurtunity. By no means is it Nvidia GTX level but I can play Witcher 2. Also, I play Skyrim on Ultra. Make sure you leave it on AC when playing or yeah it will stutter for games of that caliber.

I don't consider one generation behind old, specially being an Core i7 3770.

But anyway, I just tried to play with Intel Graphics because my old graphics card died, now I'm using an GTX 760.

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

I don't consider one generation behind old, specially being an Core i7 3770.

But anyway, I just tried to play with Intel Graphics because my old graphics card died, now I'm using an GTX 760.

Maybe it's not old but from a product release standpoint it is and when reviewing the specs you can't compare the 4000 model to the Iris Pro 5200. That would be like comparing a Nvidia GT model to a GTX model when you look at the specs.

GTX... ah, can't wait till I can get my hands on one.

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

I don't consider one generation behind old, specially being an Core i7 3770.

But anyway, I just tried to play with Intel Graphics because my old graphics card died, now I'm using an GTX 760.

GTX... ah, can't wait till I can get my hands on one.

Maybe it's not old but from a product release standpoint and the specs you can't compare the 4000 model to the Iris Pro 5200. That would be like comparing a Nvidia GT model to a GTX model when you look at the specs.

Yeah, I suffered a lot with my old AMD Radeon 7870 on Linux. I actually like AMD GPUs, but on Linux they are awful.

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

I think that using old hardware is common between Linux users. This is not limited to Steam, in most sites dedicated to Linux, specially foruns, users with old hardware usually prevails. This may be partially because the average users don't buy Windows, they simply buy a new computer that comes with the latest version of Windows, and since Linux users download their own OS's, they don't buy new machines very often. This is ok if you just browse the web, or do simple tasks, but for graphic demanding games is totally unacceptable.

In full agreeance. The problem I wrote of comes from when people make false accusations or reply to posts without basing it on current hardware and information. Basing a response to a problem on their old hardware... gives the impression Linux has so many issues. There is far less issue with newer equipment.

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

Yeah, I suffered a lot with my old AMD Radeon 7870 on Linux. I actually like AMD GPUs, but on Linux they are awful.

LOL --agreed. I have learned through trial and error that Radeon does an excellent job for an HTPC (movies, video, television) or for graphic design; whereas NVIDIA shines most for games. For me there was a definite edge for the different makers while in the categories I placed them. Caveat, this statement is based on pre-GTX cards and I have no knowledge of if this remains the case.

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

I think that using old hardware is common between Linux users. This is not limited to Steam, in most sites dedicated to Linux, specially foruns, users with old hardware usually prevails. This may be partially because the average users don't buy Windows, they simply buy a new computer that comes with the latest version of Windows, and since Linux users download their own OS's, they don't buy new machines very often. This is ok if you just browse the web, or do simple tasks, but for graphic demanding games is totally unacceptable.

In full agreeance. The problem I wrote of comes from when people make false accusations or reply to posts without basing it on current hardware and information. Basing a response to a problem on their old hardware... gives the impression Linux has so many issues. There is far less issue with newer equipment.

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

Yeah, I suffered a lot with my old AMD Radeon 7870 on Linux. I actually like AMD GPUs, but on Linux they are awful.

LOL --agreed. I have learned through trial and error that Radeon does an excellent job for an HTPC (movies, video, television) or for graphic design; whereas NVIDIA shines most for games. For me there was a definite edge for the different makers while in the categories I placed them. Caveat, this statement is based on pre-GTX cards and I have no knowledge of if this remains the case.

In my experience AMD is better in the desktop, whereas Nvidia is better for gaming. It's true that Nvidia performance is flawless for gaming under Linux, but what most people don't say is that it has repainting issues in the desktop, which is caused by Nvidia underclock "feature".

Just google "linux nvidia repainting issue".

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

In my experience AMD is better in the desktop, whereas Nvidia is better for gaming. It's true that Nvidia performance is flawless for gaming under Linux, but what most people don't say is that it has repainting issues in the desktop, which is caused by Nvidia underclock "feature".

Just google "linux nvidia repainting issue".

We seem to be in agreeance.

In regards to repainting issues. I know this problem. If you are running a composite manager then that is most likely the issue. If you don't need all the extra effects for your desktop... just turn them off (the composite manager) and the repainting issue goes away permanently. Not a solution everyone can live with but it is a fix.

If you need a composite manager, there is a fix where you set your 'nvidia-settings' to certain parameters which loads at boot. You'll have to look that up (google/yahoo) though because it's been a while since I have done it; but basically you'd set the card to maximum setting to compensate and stop the repainting problem.... I think it deals with powermizer or something like that.

Hope that helps.

[Drako Frost]

Originally posted by BlkMagicNinja:

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

In my experience AMD is better in the desktop, whereas Nvidia is better for gaming. It's true that Nvidia performance is flawless for gaming under Linux, but what most people don't say is that it has repainting issues in the desktop, which is caused by Nvidia underclock "feature".

Just google "linux nvidia repainting issue".

We seem to be in agreeance.

In regards to repainting issues. I know this problem. If you are running a composite manager then that is most likely the issue. If you don't need all the extra effects for your desktop... just turn them off (the composite manager) and the repainting issue goes away permanently. Not a solution everyone can live with but it is a fix.

If you need a composite manager, there is a fix where you set your 'nvidia-settings' to certain parameters which loads at boot. You'll have to look that up (google/yahoo) though because it's been a while since I have done it; but basically you'd set the card to maximum setting to compensate and stop the repainting problem.... I think it deals with powermizer or something like that.

Hope that helps.

Well, I use Gnome 3.14, from my point of view it doesn't make much sense to use Gnome without compositing. Disabling compositing also leads to another issues, such as tearing.

I know about the powermizer workaround, but running the graphics card at full speed make the coolers louder, and also causes overheat. In the long term could also impact the lifespan of the graphics card.

[SHONUFF!!!]

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

Well, I use Gnome 3.14, from my point of view it doesn't make much sense to use Gnome without compositing. Disabling compositing also leads to another issues, such as tearing.

Tearing. There is a fix for that. I just implimented it a few weeks ago.... would have to go thru my notes to find what was needed but I remember it was pretty simple.

Originally posted by Drako Frost:

I know about the powermizer workaround, but running the graphics card at full speed make the coolers louder, and also causes overheat. In the long term could also impact the lifespan of the graphics card.

Powermizer. You probably only need powermizer setting altered for gaming... so, when finished... turn powermizer settings back to normal or off. Additionally, you probably do not need to turn the setting completely up... I would experiment for the sweet spot where there is little negative impact upon the card.