pecosdave May 28 @ 6:06am
Arch-based Linux major fatal error - help?
I'm using the "Rolling Release" of NetRunner Linux, this is my first time dipping my toes into Arch based distros. I started with Redhat 5.0 in 98, used SuSE 7.0-10.2 then quit the RPM world. I've been a Debian based guy for over a decade, holding out on straight Debian until Etch was being replaced, and I've been Linux nearly exclusively since about 2000 - yes I'm old.

My problem, which I didn't seem to have on the Debian/Ubunut based version of Netrunner, is after 15 to 30 minutes, I'm not really sure because I haven't timed it, my screen goes black, sound plays for a little while, but the system becomes unresponsive. It's happened on both Awesomnauts and Beat Hazard, I'm not sure about non-Steam games. Not even crt+alt+esc or ctrl+alt+F1 work, and I can't SSH in from another system to shut it down properly. The system more or less hard locks. I suspected some sort of X-Lock error, I uninstalled Electric Sheep, Set all of my power saving settings to Eco Unfriendly, set no screen saver, everything I could thing of. It plays beautifully without issue until the hard-lock happens. I'm running the proprietary nVidia drivers and always have, even when it was really hard to do in the old days.

I put the following in my xorg.conf

Section "ServerLayout"

Option "BlankTime" "0"
Option "StandbyTime" "0"
Option "SuspendTime" "0"
Option "OffTime" "0"

I also threw a line in there somewhere to keep the mouse pointer from paying attention to the PS3 controls tilt.

I'm using a PS3 control with SixAxis running via bluetooth, I suspect lack of keyboard and mouse activity may be the trigger, but it's far beyond normal screen saver mess.

This is a fairly new install, just a couple of weeks from scratch with my non-hidden home files migrated from an old drive, so there's not a whole lot of leftover deprecated code lurking about in my libraries and bin directories, same is true in inverse, there may be something obvious most systems would have by now mines missing since it's a newer install and I could have had a brain fart and not put it in.

I don't think it's a heat issue, all my fans are working great and the inside of the system is fairly clean. Besides, worked great on the Debian/Ubuntu based system.

For those of you who are going to think about it:

[dave@FourBanger ~]$ lspci
00:00.0 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 Host Bridge (rev a1)
00:01.0 ISA bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 LPC Bridge (rev a2)
00:01.1 SMBus: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 SMBus (rev a2)
00:01.2 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 Memory Controller (rev a2)
00:02.0 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 USB 1.1 Controller (rev a3)
00:02.1 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 USB 2.0 Controller (rev a3)
00:04.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 PCI bridge (rev a1)
00:05.0 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2)
00:06.0 IDE interface: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 IDE (rev a2)
00:07.0 Bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 Ethernet (rev a2)
00:08.0 IDE interface: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 SATA Controller (rev a2)
00:08.1 IDE interface: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 SATA Controller (rev a2)
00:09.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP61 PCI Express bridge (rev a2)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor HyperTransport Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Miscellaneous Control
00:18.4 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Link Control
01:07.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 62)
01:07.1 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 62)
01:07.2 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 65)
01:07.3 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6306/7/8 [Fire II(M)] IEEE 1394 OHCI Controller (rev 46)
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT 430] (rev a1)
02:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1)
[dave@FourBanger ~]$

[dave@FourBanger ~]$ lsusb
Bus 005 Device 003: ID 0bb4:0df5 HTC (High Tech Computer Corp.)
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 054c:0268 Sony Corp. Batoh Device / PlayStation 3 Controller
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 05e3:0716 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB 2.0 Multislot Card Reader/Writer
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0cf2:6230 ENE Technology, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 046d:082d Logitech, Inc. HD Pro Webcam C920
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 413c:2011 Dell Computer Corp. Multimedia Pro Keyboard
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 413c:1005 Dell Computer Corp. Multimedia Pro Keyboard Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
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ProChaser [Linux] May 28 @ 6:24am 
Please, don't use Arch Linux distributions! If you like what Arch is about, just install Arch and read it's well written install instructions. All the Arch derived distributions out there have problems - again - don't use them.

Moreover, you won't get support for this by arch users. Please use Arch Linux or go for one of the well developed KDE distributions like Linux Mint, Mageia, openSUSE, Kubuntu or just plain Debian.
Last edited by ProChaser [Linux]; May 28 @ 6:25am
JoeyJoeJoe25 May 28 @ 5:26pm 
Originally posted by ProChaser Linux:
Please, don't use Arch Linux distributions! If you like what Arch is about, just install Arch and read it's well written install instructions. All the Arch derived distributions out there have problems - again - don't use them.

Moreover, you won't get support for this by arch users. Please use Arch Linux or go for one of the well developed KDE distributions like Linux Mint, Mageia, openSUSE, Kubuntu or just plain Debian.

Problems? I haven't run into any yet. I have had endless problems with Mint and Ubuntu however.
Last edited by JoeyJoeJoe25; May 28 @ 5:27pm
pecosdave May 28 @ 5:55pm 
I quit using "just plain Debian" because of the many problems with it. Once Ubuntu made it big the regular Deiban folks resigned themselves to being framework builders. Debian regularly broke my working hardware IN STABLE by releasing "security fixes" that broke one driver after another. I had a core Debian developer admit to me on Slashdot that you shouldn't run any security fixes on any of their stuff if you want to keep your stuff working.

Kubuntu, been there, did that, it by no means qualifies as well developed. More like after-thoughted with a bunch of apps conveniently compiled against GTK for your QT environment! Which is why I was running the Netrunner releases until recently when I switched to rolling release. I may switch back to a normal release schedule Netrunner if I can't figure this out.

I even stated I ran SuSE from 7.0 until 10.2ish. I was a Novell guy back in the old Netware days and loved it, but I finally got fed up with SuSE and their packages having dependencies not met in their own repositories, etc... It was not a user friendly distro, and even though I could fix nearly anything I came across I finally got to a point where I wanted to use my system, not work on it. Sort of like I'm doing now. OpenSuSE might be better than old SuSE but I hesitate to fine out for myself. I don't have the boatloads of time I used to work on that sort of thing. Ran Mint on a laptop for a little while, was rather nice, but it felt like they Apple-fied it a bit by taking away options and making choices for me. I'm a more of a KDE guy than I am distro loyal.
Touch My Box May 28 @ 8:28pm 
Originally posted by ProChaser Linux:
Please, don't use Arch Linux distributions! If you like what Arch is about, just install Arch and read it's well written install instructions. All the Arch derived distributions out there have problems - again - don't use them.

Moreover, you won't get support for this by arch users. Please use Arch Linux or go for one of the well developed KDE distributions like Linux Mint, Mageia, openSUSE, Kubuntu or just plain Debian.

I'm running Arch-proper on my desktop, but I've heard archers say good thing about Antergos.
Junior s2 Camila May 29 @ 5:46am 
I'm using a PS3 control with SixAxis running via bluetooth, I suspect lack of keyboard and mouse activity may be the trigger, but it's far beyond normal screen saver mess.
Have you tried playing with plain mouse and keyboard?
I don't think it's a heat issue, all my fans are working great and the inside of the system is fairly clean. Besides, worked great on the Debian/Ubuntu based system.
Do you OverClock? I had similar issues when I poorly overclocked my system. Actually, my old OC setup worked fine on WIndows but Arch didn't like it much, so I had to fine tune it.
Originally posted by ProChaser Linux:
Please, don't use Arch Linux distributions! If you like what Arch is about, just install Arch and read it's well written install instructions. All the Arch derived distributions out there have problems - again - don't use them.
Moreover, you won't get support for this by arch users. Please use Arch Linux or go for one of the well developed KDE distributions like Linux Mint, Mageia, openSUSE, Kubuntu or just plain Debian.
I quite disagree. Not all have problems. Well, ALL LINUX DISTOS HAVE PROBLEMS, but I couldn't see any major bug in the Arch spins that Arch already didn't have.
Last edited by Junior s2 Camila; May 29 @ 5:46am
mvs.ty1adrhas May 29 @ 5:58am 
This only happens, when you're playing a game? Does it only happen when you play with the PS3 controller, or also with mouse and keyboard?

Originally posted by pecosdave:
I put the following in my xorg.conf

Section "ServerLayout"

Option "BlankTime" "0"
Option "StandbyTime" "0"
Option "SuspendTime" "0"
Option "OffTime" "0"

Can you double check the man page if there is some other place where these settings can get overwritten? I can't remember right now but I think 'serverflags' section overwrites the values of 'serverlayout' (I'm not in front of a big enough screen right now to look it up, sorry).

OT:
Originally posted by ProChaser Linux:
Please, don't use Arch Linux distributions! If you like what Arch is about, just install Arch and read it's well written install instructions. All the Arch derived distributions out there have problems - again - don't use them.

Moreover, you won't get support for this by arch users. Please use Arch Linux or go for one of the well developed KDE distributions like Linux Mint, Mageia, openSUSE, Kubuntu or just plain Debian.

Holy crap. Please if you really have the urge to tell someone who uses Linux for over 10 years which distro he should use and which one he shoudn't use: explain why. Especially if that someone asks for help and you don't even intend to help him. And for your information: if someone who uses Manjaro or netrunner goes to the arch forums and tells the people that he is using said distributions and also provides proof that he FIRST asked in the Manjaro/netrunner forums and THEN came to the arch forums, they will most likely help him/her (providing the arch-standard about providing information about the problem, the tried solutions etc is given).
pecosdave May 29 @ 7:42am 
Originally posted by Linux Junior s2 Camila:
Have you tried playing with plain mouse and keyboard?

I guess I can fire up Brutal Legend again and play it for a while, see if it returns.

Originally posted by Linux Junior s2 Camila:
Do you OverClock? I had similar issues when I poorly overclocked my system. Actually, my old OC setup worked fine on WIndows but Arch didn't like it much, so I had to fine tune it.

No, I've rarely if every overclocked anything, I like to make my stuff work for the long haul and not a few FPS.



Originally posted by mvs.ty1adrhas:
Can you double check the man page if there is some other place where these settings can get overwritten? I can't remember right now but I think 'serverflags' section overwrites the values of 'serverlayout' (I'm not in front of a big enough screen right now to look it up, sorry).

Good advice, I'm going to hunt this one down. I've found some other "setX" command or something that can be run in user space that's supposed to stop it and can even be innited at login by script that didn't work, I'm not at home so I can't flush it out as easily. Of all of the problems I've faced and defeated using Linux, even from the bad old days of no hardware support, getting to screen to stop blanking is one that just keeps coming back again and again and is very elusive. Every time I beat it I wind up changing distros/hardware or something changes in the way they do things and it's a matter of tracking it down all over again. The sick thing is I'm not even sure it's a power saving thing this time, it just fits the M.O.

Of course playing Brutal Legend should answer that....

Originally posted by mvs.ty1adrhas:
Holy crap. Please if you really have the urge to tell someone who uses Linux for over 10 years which distro he should use and which one he shoudn't use: explain why. Especially if that someone asks for help and you don't even intend to help him. And for your information: if someone who uses Manjaro or netrunner goes to the arch forums and tells the people that he is using said distributions and also provides proof that he FIRST asked in the Manjaro/netrunner forums and THEN came to the arch forums, they will most likely help him/her (providing the arch-standard about providing information about the problem, the tried solutions etc is given).

I actually got a bit of a giggle out of this guy once I thought about it some more. I've flushed out a rabid distro purist. You don't see as many of those as you used to, yes it was a little annoying in some respects, but I found his reaction more humorous than anything. I'm just going to put him in the same category I put all of the Apple hot-heads I support at work in. Don't get me wrong on that point either, Apple makes a solid usable system, but the religiously devoted people are hilarious.
Last edited by pecosdave; May 29 @ 7:50am
pecosdave May 30 @ 2:01pm 
Update guys - I got home yesterday and despite the fact it wasn't in a game when I left it was locked up in the same exact way it does when I play a game. I went back to an Ubuntu/Debian based version of Netrunner.

Thanks for the hints about what to do, I'll be back on what I know, with a fresh install. Fortunately I had a couple of extra hard drives laying around so I can migrate my data very easily with little risk.

Thanks again for the direction. After all the years I've spent in the early days of Linux doing hard core troubleshooting I'm to the point where I just want to use it to play video games and I'm going to limit my troubleshooting depth to paying customers.
Junior s2 Camila May 30 @ 11:12pm 
Would you consider installing Arch?
Also, test your memories to see if they're OK.
pecosdave May 31 @ 8:06pm 
After the last fanboy I'm not sure I want to go that direction, though I will consider it.

I have a theory as to what the problem was, it repeated on the Ubuntu/Debian based one, I think my Bluetooth dongle may have been going bad, or I may be having USB issues on my mainboard. I've been running the same system for four years or so, four cores and 3.0 Ghz was awesome then and it's still good now so I haven't updated much. I'll report back if I determine that was it, I've bought a new USB Bluetooth dongle today and I plugged it into the add-on card instead of the USB hub on my keyboard, which has been a working arangement for quite a while.
pecosdave Jun 2 @ 6:46am 
I've been troubleshooting the wrong problem.

It WAS heat.

After putting my rock-solid stable older, slower HDD back in, taking out my two PATA DVD drives (since the Arch based distro reported issues on them), then taking out my Firewire/USB combo card, which I saw having a minor Firewire error in my log files, nothing critical or fatal, I saw that the fan on my video card wasn't spinning. It never made a sound, it died a silent death.

I think if I would have had graphical issues, tearing, stutter, pixelation, or anything of the sort I would have figured it out sooner, I've worked in the computer industry, usually troubleshooting or building hardware, since 96. I guess my aversion to cracking open my own case on the weekend slowed me down a bit. (I even have a front-load HDD bracket that lets me change those out without opening it up)
mvs.ty1adrhas Jun 2 @ 9:47am 
Not bad. Checking the fan of the video card would have never crossed my mind (since those things are fairly silent these days anyway). Thanks for letting us know!
pecosdave Jun 3 @ 3:19pm 
The died without making noise bit really made a fool of me. I could tell the PSU, case and CPU fans were spinning and the video card fan was changed about a year ago so I pegged it as "new". The last one made noise first....
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