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Originally posted by Seanbeag:
Since the release of v6 there as only been fixes and balance changes. No new features. So by your definition, v6 was the start of the beta and v7 and v8 were fixes brought about therough testing the beta. ***you can check this out bu t going to their townsgame site on the nets
Originally posted by supermalparit:
We plan to add A LOT of new features. Those features can take years to be finished. *** what does this mean???? I paid $12 for a game that isnt yet complete and I may have to wait years for it to be so, and you didn't let me know that up front before purchasing the game on your store page???? Ok I am the one at fault I understand now I suck for buying your game right? Just saying.....
My own refund case is currently pending in Steam support. I have also made our concerns about this hurting the credibility of the Greenlight project clear there. It's my understanding that living in the EU, I have some consumer protection that may guarantee me a refund. I hope the rest of are successful as well.
As i explained in the other thread. There are many games that release new features after release. They generally call them expansion packs and charge you for them. The problems you describe are bugs. Every game has them on release. The game was released as a complete game. it is fully playable, if a little difficult at first.
When did you buy your copy of the game?
Version 0.4
So you knew it was an unfinished product when you bought it and willingly accepted that fact?
Seanbag, there is a distinct difference between a game that is currently in development and one that is complete where they will add in new features later. My question for you is if you actually truly believe twhat you say about the game being complete and comparing to titles released after full development is completed, would you like me, other purchasers, and even 3rd party review sites to review this game as is for its debut release??? Because if that is the case, it is one of the most terrible implemented gaems I have played.
Let me clarify that because I am not just flaming here. If all of the issues of the game are bugs then they should be fixed rather shortly and I mean in a months time right??? Are you saying that the AI issues and other problems will be shortly fixed?
I have played this game more than 20+ hours now and have a successful town with nearly 40 townies. and I know about the bugs and the ai and pathing issues and I have fixed my game play to get around them. Seriously though, the devs are expecting that the player of their game should change the way he plays the game not to get around the environament to be successful but to navigate bugs instead. So in essence when I play this game I am not fighting the dungeon or the monsters or the land or the environment built within the game to enjoy myself, I AM FIGHTING THE CODE OF THE GAME.
Some reasons why new players are having trouble:
1. Tutorial doesn't say townies will starve if you don't build a dining room area.
2. People dont't realize when they auto equip it looks for items all over the board everywhere so you are potentially sending townies to their death trying to pick up items a recently dead towny dropped after suiciding on a frogman.
3. People don't realize that in order to clean up their town of dropped items, they need to micro manage their stockpiles and also cancel all tasks so that the only one left is hauling crap - no moving hauling up the priority chain doesnt help with this. ( this I would figure to be a feature that is supposed to work, is included, and simply doesn't)
4. Tutorial is radically incomplete. It doesn't tell you that walled in buildings work better. It doesn't talk about scaffolding to resolve pathing problems and trapping townies up on top of building and them starving up there.
5. People don't realize that their townies will walk to the deepest depths of a dungeon to get drops and starve themselves to DEATH because they cant make it back in the time before they need to eat again. I mean COME ON WTF????
These are a fraction of the issues at hand in the game and I would EXPECT AND HELP THE DEVS TO FIX in a pre release game state by alpha and beta testing for them. Unfortunately, this is actually considered a full release I guess, according to you. That means I would have to judge these terrible issues as if it was a complete and stand alone item.
To paraphrse - I expect a game to be difficult, but it shouldnt be difficult to play because of poor coding and bugs, it should be difficult to play because its a new game and challenging play experience.
I stick with my original argument - any intelligent gamer can see this is an unfinished product. it simply should have been stated so in the store page and I desparately hope the devs fix this and stop misleading buyers.
The description should be changed to stop all the drama. It doesn't seem like they are scamming everyone and I really don't understand why all the white knights are screaming over this.
Go scream at Zynga for stealing games from Indie developers etc.
The description on the Greenlight page said that the game was in Alpha. That's a very quick turnaround. It went from Alpha to release, there was no beta.
Zynga is irrelevant to this game.
I personally believe that the majority of hate against the game could be averted by simply changing the Store Page to accurately explaint hat the game is still in development stages and will continue to be improved upon. that is not said anywhere on the store page.
I would say as an early fan, I would actually be seriously worried about this, especially if I purchased prior to release on Steam. You may see a drastic change in how the devs continue this game after they get some money. They could call it a day and walk off breaking even. Have any of the current fans even thoguht about this????
If they didn't want people to think it was in development, why say they will continue to provide updates? And if they are going to continue to provide updates, why isn't that stated in the store page as a committment on their end????
This literally stinks of scam. Based on the response gotten here, no one really knows what the devs intend to do. Where is the committment on their end? What is to hold them to continuing on fixing the game? Their word???
That said, I'll just touch on a couple of things you said, because I'm really not understanding entirely where you're coming from with some of it. Also, I'm at work so I don't have a great deal of time to devote to this at the moment.
First, you claimed that you liked the game (rather, you implied that you did not dislike it), and in the very same paragraph you referred to it twice as "a bad game." Now as far as I'm concerned, I don't waste time on games that I consider "bad," let alone claim to not dislike them. So the essence of your first point boils down to "I bought a bad game that I don't dislike." Clarify? If there is another post somewhere detailing the specific issues you have with the game, I would read it. Apologies in advance if I missed it.
I say that your position lacks merit because you are dismissing Towns as a proper and complete game, by your definition of the term, because it appears to have jumped straight from alpha to retail. Granted, you are using established software industry conventions to support your argument, which is laudable, but nothing will ever change the fact that both of us are sitting here arguing semantics. You can no more prove to me that this game is incomplete and unfit for sale by your definition than I can prove to you that it's not by mine. Hell, the only thing I have to support my argument is the ridiculous amount of time I've spent playing and enjoying the game since February. Maybe I just have bad taste in games, who knows.
I really think some folks should consider that perhaps if they don't like the game in it's current state (whatever we choose to call it), chances are they will never like the game. I think at least a few of the people who are upset had lofty expectations of this title and are disappointed with the indie-level quality of it. It's a very, very ambitious undertaking to make a complex sim game, and doubly so when there are only two guys making it.
As for you and others being tricked, scammed, or otherwise cheated and misled: I'm sorry, but I can't get behind you on this. We're doomed to disagree for as long as we're willing to discuss it I'm afraid. Your head's in the right place, but your heart isn't. My problem is the exact opposite. With the Steam release and the potential for increased funding on the future development of the project, my Towns glass is half-full. I'm sorry that yours isn't, but that's just the way of it.
It's lunch time. :)