Towns > Discussions générales > Détails du sujet
mattboesen 8 fév 2013 à 13h14
Water. A dumb decision that ruined the game for me. End of customer.
Water being unstoppable is a dumb design decision. Coupled with no auto-save, it is a customer killer.
Its like having a big red button that says "Oh, we just decided totally screw you and invalidate all your effort in our product. You put in a lot of effort and love it? Great, then we screw you just that much!". So, the more I invested before I make a mistake, the more I lose. Not a sensible decision.
Fix the water. Get an autosave. That's all. Simple really.
Angry enough to write a response in the hope that you fix it, but too ♥♥♥♥ed off at this point to be nice about it. You just wasted my whole day and destroyed the fun I had in the process.
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ragnar119 8 fév 2013 à 13h35 
Umm, there is autosave (look for it in options). Also the next version will give you items to block and control the water ( in fact you will need it if you want to make some special food)
Dernière modification de ragnar119; 8 fév 2013 à 13h37
ragnar119 8 fév 2013 à 15h02 
Nalidus a écrit :
ragnar119 a écrit :
Umm, there is autosave (look for it in options). Also the next version will give you items to block and control the water ( in fact you will need it if you want to make some special food)

Walls should already block water. Yet, they don't.

Maybe, or maybe not. Some walls should block water, some other should not.
Mumboejumboh 8 fév 2013 à 16h40 
ragnar119 a écrit :
Nalidus a écrit :

Walls should already block water. Yet, they don't.

Maybe, or maybe not. Some walls should block water, some other should not.

Well unless it's a "wall" like a picket fence or a cedar lattice...walls should probably stop water. That's kind of the point of a wall...stopping things.
Cyborgt 8 fév 2013 à 17h23 
Mumboejumboh a écrit :
ragnar119 a écrit :

Maybe, or maybe not. Some walls should block water, some other should not.

Well unless it's a "wall" like a picket fence or a cedar lattice...walls should probably stop water. That's kind of the point of a wall...stopping things.

Those thin log walls probably wouldn't do so well at stopping water...
ragnar119 9 fév 2013 à 4h22 
I think there should be special wall type that stops water that needs something different than only stone, or a crafting recipe like for boots of speed, where you would need to combine any type of stone wall + some more material to get a walls that can block water
Cyborgt 9 fév 2013 à 14h31 
Nalidus a écrit :
ragnar119 a écrit :
I think there should be special wall type that stops water that needs something different than only stone, or a crafting recipe like for boots of speed, where you would need to combine any type of stone wall + some more material to get a walls that can block water

Why? Stone should do a pretty good job of blocking water. I mean, the non-placed stone blocks do a fine job of keeping the water in river and lake bottoms from bursting forth into the dungeons. Why can't placed stone blocks do the same? Or, the placed wood blocks. Note... I say blocks and not walls.

Not to mention the fact that in the real world stone has been used on many occassions to successfully channel water wherever we want it to go. I certainly agree that the thinner wall materials probably shouldn't work for blocking water but there's no reason the full-sized blocks shouldn't work or require any material other than stone.
ragnar119 9 fév 2013 à 15h43 
Nalidus a écrit :
ragnar119 a écrit :
I think there should be special wall type that stops water that needs something different than only stone, or a crafting recipe like for boots of speed, where you would need to combine any type of stone wall + some more material to get a walls that can block water

Why? Stone should do a pretty good job of blocking water. I mean, the non-placed stone blocks do a fine job of keeping the water in river and lake bottoms from bursting forth into the dungeons. Why can't placed stone blocks do the same? Or, the placed wood blocks. Note... I say blocks and not walls.

To make it more interesting. To need to combine more materials so you can build walls for different uses . Also we can have different type of walls, that do different things, from water blocking to maybe lava blocking, and other special bonuses for production in underground or something similer. The more different things you can have the better i think. The most simple way is that all stone walls that you are using for building houses block water.

Cyborgt a écrit :

Not to mention the fact that in the real world stone has been used on many occassions to successfully channel water wherever we want it to go. I certainly agree that the thinner wall materials probably shouldn't work for blocking water but there's no reason the full-sized blocks shouldn't work or require any material other than stone.
Channeling water is one thing, blocking the water as people want to do it in the game is something totally different that can not be done with only placing stone wall that you would use for building houses in reality. I am not sure what a games has to do with reality anyway, its just a game.
Cyborgt 9 fév 2013 à 16h03 
ragnar119 a écrit :
Nalidus a écrit :

Why? Stone should do a pretty good job of blocking water. I mean, the non-placed stone blocks do a fine job of keeping the water in river and lake bottoms from bursting forth into the dungeons. Why can't placed stone blocks do the same? Or, the placed wood blocks. Note... I say blocks and not walls.

To make it more interesting. To need to combine more materials so you can build walls for different uses . Also we can have different type of walls, that do different things, from water blocking to maybe lava blocking, and other special bonuses for production in underground or something similer. The more different things you can have the better i think. The most simple way is that all stone walls that you are using for building houses block water.

Well, that sounds like quite a bit of extra work just to make a simple mechanic "more interesting" to some people. I mean, if we want to go as far as lava blocking then a simple stone wall probably wouldn't be good enough so it would make sense to do something special for that. The water blocking issue is much simpler though.

ragnar119 a écrit :
Cyborgt a écrit :

Not to mention the fact that in the real world stone has been used on many occassions to successfully channel water wherever we want it to go. I certainly agree that the thinner wall materials probably shouldn't work for blocking water but there's no reason the full-sized blocks shouldn't work or require any material other than stone.
Channeling water is one thing, blocking the water as people want to do it in the game is something totally different that can not be done with only placing stone wall that you would use for building houses in reality. I am not sure what a games has to do with reality anyway, its just a game.

That depends entirely on the amount of water pressure you're intending to block. Simple light flood waters can be pretty easily blocked by the kind of stone wall you'd use for building houses. If you're talking about something like going all the way down to the bottom level and digging into the lake then trying to block that off, you might actually have a point there.

As for what a game has to do with reality, obviously not very much. It was just an attempt to point out the fact that if we can do it in reality there's really no reason we shouldn't be able to do it in a game. Games usually drift more toward doing the impossible in their mechanics rather than making the possible impossible. At least when it comes to anything their mechanics actually cover since the simple solution would just be to blast the tunnel so it'll collapse and block the water/lava but the game doesn't have explosives. =]
Dernière modification de Cyborgt; 9 fév 2013 à 16h04
Rooter 9 fév 2013 à 17h21 
Why does anyone need to dig into water in the first place?
JackPS9 9 fév 2013 à 17h52 
They are making water blocking possible in v10 as well as flood gates, for items that are going to require water.
Mumboejumboh 9 fév 2013 à 18h10 
Rooter a écrit :
Why does anyone need to dig into water in the first place?

Well, I doubt they're digging into water on purpose. It's probably more of a "Whoops" kind of situation. Happens in Minecraft and Terraria all the time. Some of the time...

Okay, I'm just not good at digging.
ragnar119 10 fév 2013 à 6h38 
Cyborgt a écrit :
.....

I don't know from where you got a idea that normal block construction for houses in middle age could block water, when today house cant block it if they were not specifically made with materials to isolate water.

You probably dont know but floods cannot be blocked with normal stone and materials that were builded for old houses (water will go slowly throught all the holes and flood it anyway, it would only slow it down). Its same with modern houses that are built from blocks and cement, because the walls will absorb the water, and after some time will start leaking water because of materials used in building. In middle aged people did not fill the walls and similar thing with isolation materials that do not absorb water if they didnt need it (same as today). So if you really want realistic things than yes, you need to have special walls (or better said materials used for building them) for not absorbing and later leaking water. I know it because I live near Danube and few years ago we had problems with flooding in the near village where I live. But this is all offtopic. The thing I would like to see as said before a crafting wall mechanic not for only water/lava proof walls, but for some other bonuses also, and not only to be there for decorations and means to build roofs. The more things you have and diversity in game the better.
Dernière modification de ragnar119; 10 fév 2013 à 9h05
Mumboejumboh 10 fév 2013 à 8h53 
ragnar119 a écrit :
I don't know from where you got a idea that normal block construction for houses in middle age could block water, when today house cant block it if they were not specifically made with materials to isolate water.

You probably dont know but floods cannot be blocked with normal stone and materials that were builded for old houses (water will go slowly true all the holes and flood it anyway, it would only slow it down). Its same with modern houses that are built from blocks and cement, because the walls will absorb the water, and after some time will start leaking water because of materials used in building. In middle aged people did not fill the walls and similar thing with isolation materials that do not absorb water if they didnt need it (same as today). So if you really want realistic things than yes, you need to have special walls (or better said materials used for building them) for not absorbing and later leaking water. I know it because I live near Danube and few years ago we had problems with flooding in the near village where I live. But this is all offtopic. The thing I would like to see as said before a crafting wall mechanic not for only water/lava proof walls, but for some other bonuses also, and not only to be there for decorations and means to build roofs. The more things you have and diversity in game the better.

I'm not sure why you brought the middle ages (or the middle age/aged) into this, apart from maybe thematic comparisons between that time period and the setting for Towns.

You make a good point about the real life comparison and yes, standard building materials likely wouldn't hold back large amounts of water...but there are ways to actually stop water, hence the existence of dams. I don't think there should be some specialized alchemic recipe to craft a wall that can stop water, there should just be a semi-standard wall type (likely made of stone) that can stop flooding. It's a matter of simplicity in implementation from a game design point of view.
ragnar119 10 fév 2013 à 9h59 
Mumboejumboh a écrit :

I'm not sure why you brought the middle ages (or the middle age/aged) into this, apart from maybe thematic comparisons between that time period and the setting for Towns.

You make a good point about the real life comparison and yes, standard building materials likely wouldn't hold back large amounts of water...but there are ways to actually stop water, hence the existence of dams. I don't think there should be some specialized alchemic recipe to craft a wall that can stop water, there should just be a semi-standard wall type (likely made of stone) that can stop flooding. It's a matter of simplicity in implementation from a game design point of view.

I never said there are no ways to stop water, but I think some people think stopping the flood in real life is simple and walls of houses are enough today as back in the past.

I personally would really like a alchemical/crafting recipes for walls (including for water proof), but as you said it is a design decision.
Cyborgt 10 fév 2013 à 12h13 
ragnar119 a écrit :
....

Obviously MOST houses aren't built with walls that can stop water but then most houses aren't made of solid stone so that isn't really saying much. I was more referring to the type of blocks shown in the game when talking about "normal house construction" many of which look pretty solid to me.

As for water sealing materials, there are plenty of those as well as contruction techniques that don't really require them. Ultimately, I just think all of this is a small enough part of construction in general that it doesn't really need to be part of the game. As I said before, games tend to err on the side of making the impossible possible and unless we're trying to go for a sim here, this seems like one of those areas where it's safe to do that.
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