Towns > General Discussions > Topic Details
А-ну чики-брики Feb 1, 2013 @ 5:28pm
Future Additions - What would you like to see?
Bug fixes and general UI polish are a given, but besides that I would love more world generation options, especially some way to specify sea level & how mountainous or hilly the map will be.
Next would be weather and maybe natural disasters (lightning strikes cause forest fires or high winds = toppled structures?); flash floods would be pretty cool imo.

Last but not least, better AI movement & control. The Townies' point A to point B pathing can be somewhat irritating, and the aimless movement of wildlife is a bit odd for lack of a better word.
Last edited by А-ну чики-брики; Feb 1, 2013 @ 5:38pm
Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
< >
Cyborgt Feb 1, 2013 @ 5:49pm 
Before all of that (aside from maybe the UI polish) i'd like to see a hero shop. I just wanna see some form of interaction between the heroes and the town that doesn't require so much micromanagement. Giving heroes specific items is sooooo tedious. If you could just post it up in a shop where you can store things in racks and expect a hero to eventually buy it that would go a long way to making the game more like its concept.
А-ну чики-брики Feb 1, 2013 @ 6:24pm 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Before all of that (aside from maybe the UI polish) i'd like to see a hero shop. I just wanna see some form of interaction between the heroes and the town that doesn't require so much micromanagement. Giving heroes specific items is sooooo tedious. If you could just post it up in a shop where you can store things in racks and expect a hero to eventually buy it that would go a long way to making the game more like its concept.

Hm, I haven't gotten to use heroes much yet so I can't comment, but I like that idea. Made me think of Dungeon Developer.

A more detailed economy system would be awesome though. Anything to add more purpose to some of the more specialized portions of the game(trading & market zones, vanity, etc..)

Originally posted by Nalidus:
Lets see:
1. An AI that doesn't try to get the Townies to commit suicide.
2. An actual Town economy that is mainly influenced by the Heroes finding gold in the dungeons and purchasing gear and renting tavern rooms from the Townies. To which that gold would be used to buy stuff from Merchants.
3. Actual game balancing when it comes to the hunger and sleepiness of Townies. Also, allow Townies to prioritize their food production over feeding of animals.
I chuckled at the first one. Maybe our AI is handled by HAL.

I believe my villagers got stuck in an endless loop because they (seemed to be) feeding animals first, then themselves, then harvesting and making more food to feed the animals, so #3 would be a nice addition aswell.
A siege came around not long after I realized the dilemma my famished peasants were in and pretty much mowed down everything in their path. My fault for setting siege difficulty to Insane, I guess.
Last edited by А-ну чики-брики; Feb 1, 2013 @ 6:35pm
А-ну чики-брики Feb 1, 2013 @ 8:14pm 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
Sorry, but number 1 is true.
It is indeed. I never said, implied nor thought it wasn't.
RedGeneral Feb 1, 2013 @ 11:54pm 
Giving townies specific classes instead of just soldier, maybe baker, lumberjack, miner etc.
Solo Solitaire (Banned) Feb 2, 2013 @ 1:31am 
Originally posted by SOLID RedGeneral:
Giving townies specific classes instead of just soldier, maybe baker, lumberjack, miner etc.
You might be interested in Gnomoria.
ragnar119 Feb 2, 2013 @ 4:22am 
This are the most important things that I would like to see:

1. Job system, with townies leveling their skills. That would improve the game and AI of townies so much.
2. Economy. Selling items to heroes, paying salary to guards and similar thing, the game is to easy at the moment and there is not a lot of things you need to worry about when you understand the game and know all the tricks. (hmm in patch notes, there is "Town coins on the top", maybe we will see it sooner than later as it looks they are slowly preparing for it)
3. Questing and party system for heroes
4. Flashed out dungeons, with loot chests, bosses and similar things
5. Fear system. Preventing townies to fight against stronger monster, and allowing of making fear zones to prevent weak heroes and townies passing
Last edited by ragnar119; Feb 2, 2013 @ 4:59am
Gnollmar Feb 2, 2013 @ 6:10am 
Originally posted by Evecque:
Originally posted by SOLID RedGeneral:
Giving townies specific classes instead of just soldier, maybe baker, lumberjack, miner etc.
You might be interested in Gnomoria.

I also want a class system, but i absolutely dont wanna play gnomoria, worse experience than bugs in towns, and towns is at least addicting :P
Shadowkiss Feb 2, 2013 @ 9:38am 
Hey guys,

Nice topic you have here. I don’t know if this is the best place to develop this idea, but I have some suggestions.

Even these suggestions seem to come from Gnomoria, that’s not true. These two games are very close to be similar, but are not. The Towns is much better build, and I hope with these topics and ideas we will help the developers to build one of the best games.

1.A better AI
2.Weather and disasters are good, but I prefer to have a better elements manipulation. I want to be able to have possibility to create blocks of sand or soil in order to build the Suspended Gardens of Babylon! To find ways to move water or lava, and I am referring at mechanical devices/inventions, lava to be cooled by water, the water to be evaporated by lava and so on
3.Day/night circle and seasons spring/summer/autumn/winter
4.To have a fog of war
5.On micromanagement each townie to have skills that will improve in time, wishes, likes and dislikes things that will make them strong or weak, to receive bonuses and penalties (they are already some of them in the game).
6.To build tools and equipment (weapons/armorers) with random improvements that will affect their day-by-day work. To have tools with classes’ bonus for miners, lumberjack, farmer, soldier etc.
7.The cursor to help you to calculate and to shows the width x length selection
8.On animals, to have the possibility to choose NOT to kill a specific animal. In this way you will have all the time a caw for milk and a chicken for eggs.

And this is just the beginning…

Have a good game guys,
Hellyworld
Cyborgt Feb 2, 2013 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by ragnar119:
2. paying salary to guards and similar thing

I've always been a little iffy on this one. It sounds like a good enough idea on the surface but really it just sounds like something that without very careful consideration (on the part of the devs I mean) and a fully fleshed out economic system to back it up, could just lead to economic collapse or exploitation.

For instance, if the game does a soldier check at the end of every week a person could just convert all of their soldiers to townies on payday and pay nothing. It also greatly discourages the use of soldiers until after you have a market in place that you've already made a decent amount of money from. That part isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means you have to be more careful and/or attract heroes earlier to protect your town but there are ways it could go horribly wrong in implementation.

I guess what worries me most about the idea of having to pay guards is that there isn't a real economy of any kind yet. It kinda makes it difficult to determine an appropriate cost for soldiers if you don't have a handle on what kind of income to expect from a town. The current market system is far too irregular to serve as a base for a system where you need to pay salaries.
ragnar119 Feb 2, 2013 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by ragnar119:
2. paying salary to guards and similar thing

I've always been a little iffy on this one. It sounds like a good enough idea on the surface but really it just sounds like something that without very careful consideration (on the part of the devs I mean) and a fully fleshed out economic system to back it up, could just lead to economic collapse or exploitation.

For instance, if the game does a soldier check at the end of every week a person could just convert all of their soldiers to townies on payday and pay nothing. It also greatly discourages the use of soldiers until after you have a market in place that you've already made a decent amount of money from. That part isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means you have to be more careful and/or attract heroes earlier to protect your town but there are ways it could go horribly wrong in implementation.

I guess what worries me most about the idea of having to pay guards is that there isn't a real economy of any kind yet. It kinda makes it difficult to determine an appropriate cost for soldiers if you don't have a handle on what kind of income to expect from a town. The current market system is far too irregular to serve as a base for a system where you need to pay salaries.

How I understand they want heroes to pay the rent for rooms, so part of the income will come from that, also from selling weapons to them. Guards should not be like now, one click, they should go to barracks and train for some time (and maybe in the process lose the skills that townies will have, but gain combat skills. and training would also cost money, so its not that big problem that you can abuse it).
Rooter Feb 2, 2013 @ 3:07pm 
Hey Im not knocking anyone, but from combining the comments you guys are asking for this:

A combination of Towns, Sims, World of Warcraft and Majesty and any other game that has a enjoyable gameplay element.

I must give credit to Nalidus for only asking for improvements, not fundamental changes.

As to the economy, it is totally orientated at the barter system of commerce. Which, when looking at the "technology" levels portrayed in the game, fits to my eye.

If we then look at the the Town as a small pre-medieval conclave, then many other "broken": facets begin to look realistic.

Civilian Townies defending their community to the death.
Soldiers are drawn and returned to the loal populace as required.
Peasants starving to death, due to the "Lord" of the village giving orders they dare not contradict.
Peasants not being very bright or showing a high level of independant thought. Hence requiring direction for complicated works such as roofing.
No currency, due to the requirements of standardisation and minting facilities. Gold is heavy in real life and in early civilisation held nothing but artistic values.
Independant Heroes, fed by the town in return for their fighting abilities. Historically would be unlanded sons from the Aristocracy looking to make a name and fortune for themselves. Not an element under the "Lords" control.

Small fixes required:

Items for trade or equip - maybe make them unavailable for trade or equipping until gathered into a stockpile?

AI - needs some distance calculations, but I can see how tricky this could become.

Depends on your desire for realism. FIFO is how food must be managed in real life. Maybe thats how the AI approaches it?
It should at least check stockpiles first, before looking elsewhere. The problem I think is that each non mundane item obtains an individual tag, so when you select a specific item in the equip or trade sections you are unknowingly selecting the sword on level 9 rather than a similiar sword in your stockpile?
Cyborgt Feb 2, 2013 @ 3:42pm 
Originally posted by Rooter:
As to the economy, it is totally orientated at the barter system of commerce. Which, when looking at the "technology" levels portrayed in the game, fits to my eye.

Considering trade with the merchants is conducted with coin you're clearly entirely wrong in saying it's based on a barter system right there.

It also falls apart in that there's no bartering going on in getting gear into the hands of heroes. It's either let the stuff sit out on the floor where a hero MIGHT pick it up or put it away in a rack so they can't touch it unless they're a thief. As such, I don't see how a proper system for interacting with heroes on an exchange level is unreasonable.

Originally posted by Rooter:
No currency, due to the requirements of standardisation and minting facilities. Gold is heavy in real life and in early civilisation held nothing but artistic values.

And yet gold is the strongest gear in the game. Awesome realism there.

Originally posted by Rooter:
Small fixes required:

Items for trade or equip - maybe make them unavailable for trade or equipping until gathered into a stockpile?

That could be a good change. Might be a little frustrating if you had just crafted an item specifically to sell and a townie just hadn't gotten around to putting it away yet but that's a manageable problem.

Originally posted by Rooter:
The problem I think is that each non mundane item obtains an individual tag, so when you select a specific item in the equip or trade sections you are unknowingly selecting the sword on level 9 rather than a similiar sword in your stockpile?

That's the obvious explanation for when you try to sell a piece of gear to a merchant and your people run into the dungeon to get it but it doesn't explain why that same thing happens with the "mundane items" like stone or iron.

After a while you'll probably find you've overproduced something down in your mines and have far more than will fit in your stockpile on the surface. At this time you might think "well i'll just sell off the hundred bars I have up here in the stockpile and let them refill it over time." Next thing you know, the merchant has been sitting on the surface layer for 10 minutes and several townies have starved because they chose to take odd paths to pick up the iron bar from your mine instead of the one in the stockpile.

I don't have that problem TOO often but it deffinitely happens and I have no idea why. It turns what should have been a 10 second rush of townies going from barrel to caravan into a 10 minute+ death march.
Rooter Feb 2, 2013 @ 4:25pm 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
As to the economy, it is totally orientated at the barter system of commerce. Which, when looking at the "technology" levels portrayed in the game, fits to my eye.

Considering trade with the merchants is conducted with coin you're clearly entirely wrong in saying it's based on a barter system right there.

Sorry but I have to disagree, no coins are traded, there are no coins. What you are referring to is a predetermined value per item. If you trade under the value, you recieve no coin. You cannot trade over the value as the merchant AI will not accept the trade.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
It also falls apart in that there's no bartering going on in getting gear into the hands of heroes. It's either let the stuff sit out on the floor where a hero MIGHT pick it up or put it away in a rack so they can't touch it unless they're a thief. As such, I don't see how a proper system for interacting with heroes on an exchange level is unreasonable.

But you are bartering with the heroes. You are allowing them access to your goods in return for their services. If they desire to use an available item then they do. Most of the good items are gained from defeating enemies of your town, hence to the victor goes the spoils.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
No currency, due to the requirements of standardisation and minting facilities. Gold is heavy in real life and in early civilisation held nothing but artistic values.

And yet gold is the strongest gear in the game. Awesome realism there.

Give you that one, but due to gold being rare, it is understandable that the designer could correlate that substance as required to create the best gear.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
Small fixes required:

Items for trade or equip - maybe make them unavailable for trade or equipping until gathered into a stockpile?

That could be a good change. Might be a little frustrating if you had just crafted an item specifically to sell and a townie just hadn't gotten around to putting it away yet but that's a manageable problem.

Thankyou my friend.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
The problem I think is that each non mundane item obtains an individual tag, so when you select a specific item in the equip or trade sections you are unknowingly selecting the sword on level 9 rather than a similiar sword in your stockpile?

That's the obvious explanation for when you try to sell a piece of gear to a merchant and your people run into the dungeon to get it but it doesn't explain why that same thing happens with the "mundane items" like stone or iron.

My theory is the AI collects items in this manner or similiar.

Furthest distance - priority 1
Left to right, bottom to top of screen - priority 2.

I reckon this is for the gathering function, which is copied into items and trading. (does that make sense)

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
After a while you'll probably find you've overproduced something down in your mines and have far more than will fit in your stockpile on the surface. At this time you might think "well i'll just sell off the hundred bars I have up here in the stockpile and let them refill it over time." Next thing you know, the merchant has been sitting on the surface layer for 10 minutes and several townies have starved because they chose to take odd paths to pick up the iron bar from your mine instead of the one in the stockpile.

I don't have that problem TOO often but it deffinitely happens and I have no idea why. It turns what should have been a 10 second rush of townies going from barrel to caravan into a 10 minute+ death march.

Look above for my reasoning on how I think it works.
I dont have much use for traders, as the allowable items to trade are quite often not able to be traded to that certain trader in exchange for the item you require.
For example, if you are selling iron swords, yet are not interested in buying from the trader, then you are in reality giving the trader iron swords for nothing.
That is how the barter system works.
Your iron swords holds less value when you have a surplus as opposed to the value they hold when you have a lack.
Last edited by Rooter; Feb 2, 2013 @ 4:26pm
Cyborgt Feb 2, 2013 @ 5:59pm 
Originally posted by Rooter:
Sorry but I have to disagree, no coins are traded, there are no coins. What you are referring to is a predetermined value per item. If you trade under the value, you recieve no coin. You cannot trade over the value as the merchant AI will not accept the trade.

Uhhh, either i'm not understanding you correctly or you have no idea how the merchant system actually works in this game. Unless they changed it in the recent patch there is a currency that you can trade for with each merchant.

I made it a point to clear the merchant out of whatever currency it is they hold every time they came by even when I had no use for their goods. That way i'd have supplemental cash to purchase the more expensive named weapons whenever they showed up even if I didn't have enough of the goods that merchant buys to cover the cost of the gear.

There is clearly a currency at work when dealing with the merchants even if I don't know what that currency is so it clearly is not a barter system.

Originally posted by Rooter:
But you are bartering with the heroes. You are allowing them access to your goods in return for their services. If they desire to use an available item then they do. Most of the good items are gained from defeating enemies of your town, hence to the victor goes the spoils.

Two problems with that one.

First, the heroes often don't pick up gear that drops right in front of them even if they can actually make use of it. The game requires them to idle in the area of gear for them to bother even assessing its worth to them. Even then the item must not be in a container when they do idle near it (except for thieves) including stockpiles or they won't touch it. This requires convoluted methods of using containers to shift something to an area where the heroes often idle before removing the item from the container just to give them gear for free.

Second, as I mentioned before there is no interaction in which you are actually giving them anything. In essence something doesn't belong to your town unless it's in a container (thus the reason only thieves will touch anything in a container) so the only way you can get a hero (again other than a thief) to take your stuff is to make it not belong to you. As such there is effectively no bartering going on at all. They can only take something from you once you've declared it as garbage in your eyes.

Talking so much about the thief made me think of another decent point. There's nothing you can do about it when a hero actually steals from you. Even if you have an army of 100 guards and it happens right in front of one of them, you can't do anything about it. You can't order the hero around so you can't send them into a suicide mission and there's no system for dealing with criminals so you can't arrest them.

Originally posted by Rooter:
Give you that one, but due to gold being rare, it is understandable that the designer could correlate that substance as required to create the best gear.

He already had quite a few fake materials in the game so there's no reason he couldn't have come up with another one for the best gear. The game just isn't really going for realism at all so it's kinda pointless to try and use an argument of "in real life" to justify anything in it. There's nothing wrong with that, I just used the gold thing to point out the ridiculousness of making this kind of argument at all in this case.

Originally posted by Rooter:
Thankyou my friend.

Well, I dunno that i'd call us friends but you're welcome anyway.

Originally posted by Rooter:
For example, if you are selling iron swords, yet are not interested in buying from the trader, then you are in reality giving the trader iron swords for nothing.
That is how the barter system works.
Your iron swords holds less value when you have a surplus as opposed to the value they hold when you have a lack.

Again, as I stated in the beginning there is a clear currency of some form at work in the game. You aren't giving away your iron swords for nothing even if you trade them to a merchant without taking anything from him. There is a maximum amount of currency they have for trade but they do have a currency.
Rooter Feb 2, 2013 @ 6:49pm 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
Sorry but I have to disagree, no coins are traded, there are no coins. What you are referring to is a predetermined value per item. If you trade under the value, you recieve no coin. You cannot trade over the value as the merchant AI will not accept the trade.

Uhhh, either i'm not understanding you correctly or you have no idea how the merchant system actually works in this game. Unless they changed it in the recent patch there is a currency that you can trade for with each merchant.

I made it a point to clear the merchant out of whatever currency it is they hold every time they came by even when I had no use for their goods. That way i'd have supplemental cash to purchase the more expensive named weapons whenever they showed up even if I didn't have enough of the goods that merchant buys to cover the cost of the gear.

There is clearly a currency at work when dealing with the merchants even if I don't know what that currency is so it clearly is not a barter system.

Umm Im a little confused now. I think the "currency" is the perceived value I talked about.
You have no currency other than the items you trade. When you "sell" the value goes positive, when you "buy" the value goes negative. A trade cannot occur with a negative value, and the currency difference is not retained for future use.
If you trade with a positive balance, you lose out on the trade. I feel it is a tool to allow you to know the equivalent values of the trade?
I have never noticed an accumulation of excess trade currency?

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
But you are bartering with the heroes. You are allowing them access to your goods in return for their services. If they desire to use an available item then they do. Most of the good items are gained from defeating enemies of your town, hence to the victor goes the spoils.

Two problems with that one.

First, the heroes often don't pick up gear that drops right in front of them even if they can actually make use of it. The game requires them to idle in the area of gear for them to bother even assessing its worth to them. Even then the item must not be in a container when they do idle near it (except for thieves) including stockpiles or they won't touch it. This requires convoluted methods of using containers to shift something to an area where the heroes often idle before removing the item from the container just to give them gear for free.

Thats a mechanic of the game - nothiong else for me to say.
As I indicated earlier, i see the heroes coming due to free food and board.
It is in the towns best interest for them to have gear, hence I have honestly never entertained the idea of them stealing.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Second, as I mentioned before there is no interaction in which you are actually giving them anything. In essence something doesn't belong to your town unless it's in a container (thus the reason only thieves will touch anything in a container) so the only way you can get a hero (again other than a thief) to take your stuff is to make it not belong to you. As such there is effectively no bartering going on at all. They can only take something from you once you've declared it as garbage in your eyes.

I see it as they are out of your control. An independant force. They choose what they desire to use. My experience indicates they will only ever upgrade.
Im sure they will also take items from your stockpiles (thats why u get them to idle there)?

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Talking so much about the thief made me think of another decent point. There's nothing you can do about it when a hero actually steals from you. Even if you have an army of 100 guards and it happens right in front of one of them, you can't do anything about it. You can't order the hero around so you can't send them into a suicide mission and there's no system for dealing with criminals so you can't arrest them.

My reasoning above covers this.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
Give you that one, but due to gold being rare, it is understandable that the designer could correlate that substance as required to create the best gear.

He already had quite a few fake materials in the game so there's no reason he couldn't have come up with another one for the best gear. The game just isn't really going for realism at all so it's kinda pointless to try and use an argument of "in real life" to justify anything in it. There's nothing wrong with that, I just used the gold thing to point out the ridiculousness of making this kind of argument at all in this case.

I feel as though they would need to have a basis for making the game. Some sort of idea based on a simplistic, earlier civilisation village.
I use this idea as that is what came naturally to me while playing the game, it also explains for me why the game plays as it does.
If Im correct it shows some complaints on features as possibly intentional on the designers part. I cannot say that I am correct, just offerring a view.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
Thankyou my friend.

Well, I dunno that i'd call us friends but you're welcome anyway.

My friend is not my enemy.
To take the view that you are not my enemy allows civil conversation.

Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Originally posted by Rooter:
For example, if you are selling iron swords, yet are not interested in buying from the trader, then you are in reality giving the trader iron swords for nothing.
That is how the barter system works.
Your iron swords holds less value when you have a surplus as opposed to the value they hold when you have a lack.

Again, as I stated in the beginning there is a clear currency of some form at work in the game. You aren't giving away your iron swords for nothing even if you trade them to a merchant without taking anything from him. There is a maximum amount of currency they have for trade but they do have a currency.

Ok I have obviously missed this, could anyone clarify

Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50
Date Posted: Feb 1, 2013 @ 5:28pm
Posts: 30