Towns > General Discussions > Topic Details
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:15pm
People, just give this game a fair go, I promise you'll get hooked. Comment if you like it!
Ok look, it's been said a million times now, yes, there is a lot to develop in this game, fair enough, but banging on about it in your bedroom is not going to get it developed any faster.

Of course if your having the Java problem and it's just not working then I understand the anger, but it's not the dev's fault as far as I know.

Frustrating at times? Hell yea, like every game I've ever played.

Unexplained gameplay, a fair comment, needs correcting but hell people, Towns wiki has everything in plain english. Minecraft gets along just fine with just a wiki for help.

And once you get good, it's addictive and a lot of fun. Sure it's no Terraria yet, but it does not deserve some of the bad comments it's been getting. Give it a chance.
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Verschlossen Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:19pm 
To whit there are also some nice video guides right here on Steam.
Mumboejumboh Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:25pm 
The difference between Towns and Minecraft is that in Minecraft it's actually fun (and also kind of the point) to discover how everything works and just whittle away your time doing this or that. In Towns you have to guess at what you're doing (because lord knows the tutorial doesn't help you) or read the wiki to figure out what goes where and how things work.

Maybe it's just me, but it strikes me as a major point of failure when the game itself fails to adequately teach the player (specifically when the game actually attempts to do so through a tutorial) and players are forced to resort to either trial and error or outside sources.

I won't say that it's impossible to enjoy (or...ugh...get hooked by) Towns, but I WILL say that Towns is woefully incomplete. Quite frankly it shouldn't have been sold (on Steam) at all at this point.

I'm also not sure where you're going with "It's no Terraria yet"...they're wholly different types of games both in genre, style, and execution.
Last edited by Mumboejumboh; Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:25pm
Solo Solitaire Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:31pm 
Just the other side of the coin, a lot of people have given it a fair go and think it's crap still.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:37pm 
Originally posted by Evecque:
Just the other side of the coin, a lot of people have given it a fair go and think it's crap still.
lol, well yes, if you think it's crap then you think it's crap and your more than entitled to that view, no problem with that. My main worry is some of the vitriol being directed at it is way out of proportion.
Mumboejumboh Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:57pm 
Originally posted by neddread:
Originally posted by Evecque:
Just the other side of the coin, a lot of people have given it a fair go and think it's crap still.
lol, well yes, if you think it's crap then you think it's crap and your more than entitled to that view, no problem with that. My main worry is some of the vitriol being directed at it is way out of proportion.

Actually, the real problem is when folks dismiss the legitimate grievances as "vitriol". Towns has real problems stemming back to it's horribly timed release. Ignoring those just because you like the game doesn't make it a good game.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:59pm 
Originally posted by Mumboejumboh:
Maybe it's just me, but it strikes me as a major point of failure when the game itself fails to adequately teach the player (specifically when the game actually attempts to do so through a tutorial) and players are forced to resort to either trial and error or outside sources.
Yes the tutorial may as well not be there and as I said, needs correcting. But Minecraft has exactly the same "problem". There's no tutorial in Minecraft, and intuition only gets you so far, and to get into the depths of the game you have to wiki it just like Towns. Sure if you use the phrase"forced to resort to outside sources" then it sounds like a capital offence, but you would quite happily and without being forced do the same thing in Minecraft or another game you like.
Sure you and a lot of people don't like the game, but I think this is colouring your view of the whole experience and bringing up 100% negative and no positives. I agree it's flawed, but it's not the pile of crap it's being made out to be.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:06pm 
Originally posted by Mumboejumboh:
Originally posted by neddread:
Originally posted by Evecque:
Just the other side of the coin, a lot of people have given it a fair go and think it's crap still.
lol, well yes, if you think it's crap then you think it's crap and your more than entitled to that view, no problem with that. My main worry is some of the vitriol being directed at it is way out of proportion.

Actually, the real problem is when folks dismiss the legitimate grievances as "vitriol". Towns has real problems stemming back to it's horribly timed release. Ignoring those just because you like the game doesn't make it a good game.

Look, I will say multiple times that it's flawed and needs a kick up the ♥♥♥♥, and there are a lot of intelligent comments on how they might do that, I'm not dismissing that, but some of it is just OTT in relation to it's price bracket and Greenlight status and as I have found, playability.
Nalidus Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:10pm 
Originally posted by neddread:
but it does not deserve some of the bad comments it's been getting.

Nope. It wholeheartedly deserves quite a bit of the negative comments that it gets. Mainly the negativity towards the atrocious Townie AI, which this patch did extremely little to fix.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:14pm 
Originally posted by Mumboejumboh:
I'm also not sure where you're going with "It's no Terraria yet"...they're wholly different types of games both in genre, style, and execution.

I'm not going anywhere with it dude, it's just a turn of phrase not a misguided attempt to compare the two products. I am fully aware having played both a lot that there are fundamental differences between them and as a rule I tend to give game forum members a little more credit than your giving me.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:19pm 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
Originally posted by neddread:
but it does not deserve some of the bad comments it's been getting.

Nope. It wholeheartedly deserves quite a bit of the negative comments that it gets. Mainly the negativity towards the atrocious Townie AI, which this patch did extremely little to fix.

But thats my point. Townie AI is a perfectly normal thing to flag up to the developers, but there are comments and headlines on this forum demanding money back for problems that all games can suffer from (and normally do).
I state again, there is a lot to fix, but the game ain't broke.
Mumboejumboh Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:25pm 
Originally posted by neddread:
Yes the tutorial may as well not be there and as I said, needs correcting. But Minecraft has exactly the same "problem". There's no tutorial in Minecraft, and intuition only gets you so far, and to get into the depths of the game you have to wiki it just like Towns. Sure if you use the phrase"forced to resort to outside sources" then it sounds like a capital offence, but you would quite happily and without being forced do the same thing in Minecraft or another game you like.
Sure you and a lot of people don't like the game, but I think this is colouring your view of the whole experience and bringing up 100% negative and no positives. I agree it's flawed, but it's not the pile of crap it's being made out to be.

No...it's not exactly the same "problem" in Minecraft. Minecraft is a sandbox game in which you explore, discover, and build. It has no beginning, middle, or end...it simply IS. You don't really play Minecraft with some overarching goal in mind (apart from maybe slaying the Ender Dragon or something) you just have fun with what's there. You don't have to resort to a wiki to play Minecraft unless you WANT information from people who already know. It's a game where learning how to play it is fun, but it's not necessarily a failure of the game if you want to figure it out from somebody else.

Towns, conversely, is far more structured. Your goal is to build a town that caters to heroes, so that they will come and explore the dungeon beneath. Towns attempts to teach new players through tutorials, but fails to adequately prepare you for the full depth of what you need to do. This forces the player to either blindly try things until they discover what works, or search for a third party source that explains how the game works. This is different from Minecraft (and conversely what I feel to be a failure of the game itself) in that Towns is a game with structure. It has a goal and a flow of events. If you don't know how to follow the structure of the game, you cannot advance further. THIS is why Towns fails in its inability to teach the player.

You want to know why I'm so negative with regard to Towns? It's because I really like the concept. I read up on it and thought to myself "Huh, this is an interesting take on things. You build a city to cater to the hero, but do not actually control the hero". I bought it, downloaded it, and played it. I could not, for the life of me, enjoy it. The game seemingly did everything in its power to prevent me from enjoying it through a myriad of failures and lacking pieces in its structure. This is, and perhaps will ever be, the most opinionated I ever get about Towns right here. I don't like Towns, and the fact that I want to like it but can't very nearly makes me hate it.

DESPITE the fact that I dislike the game so much, I still try my hardest to represent my negative opinion fairly. I don't go saying "The game sucks, it should never be played by anyone". I don't go telling people that DO enjoy the game that they're stupid or wrong. I also don't dismiss the opinions and facts of people defending the game. I don't care if you like the game or hate it, I only care that you try to represent yourself and your feelings towards the game as fairly as possible.
Rooter Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:34pm 
Mumbo, ever played EU3?
Complete the tutorials on that, then see how long you last.
If I gave you a tutorial on how to bolt two pieces of RHS together, would you be able to build me the Eifell tower?
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:38pm 
Originally posted by Mumboejumboh:
You don't have to resort to a wiki to play Minecraft unless you WANT information from people who already know.

? So you found out that a 3x4 hollow square of Obsidian lit by a flint and steel opens a portal to the Nether without a wiki or you tube video? Or combining eyes of ender with a special dungeon block gets you to the End by intuition? I could go on with the amount of wiki work Minecraft needs just to play the vanilla game, redstone etc. I do not agree.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:48pm 
Originally posted by Rooter:
Well said Ned.
The problem you are facing is not as simple as you might believe.
Take me as an example, I agree with you 100%.
The game isnt perfect but its not bad. Im not here to say its perfect, but I cant put up with the singleminded obsession some show in demeaning the game, hence I defend it.

On the other hand you are arguing with people who just want you to hate the game, full stop.
They also quote in part anything you write and attempt to put one or two sentences into a different context than the total post intends (look up for examples).

The funny thing is AI development is both expensive and time consuming, yet a certain child on this forum (horribly immature comment, but fair) wants the equivalent of Deep Blue in a $15 game.

Amen. And there is real satisfaction when you get a town ticking over and just sit back and watch it unfold. When it's fixed up I think it will be a blinder. :)
And taking into consideration what the dev team seem to have put up with in their private lives, I think it's worth the punt.
neddread Jan 27, 2013 @ 9:53pm 
Originally posted by Mumboejumboh:
DESPITE the fact that I dislike the game so much, I still try my hardest to represent my negative opinion fairly. I don't go saying "The game sucks, it should never be played by anyone". I don't go telling people that DO enjoy the game that they're stupid or wrong. I also don't dismiss the opinions and facts of people defending the game. I don't care if you like the game or hate it, I only care that you try to represent yourself and your feelings towards the game as fairly as possible.

And you have been measured and civil about the whole thing old bean.
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Date Posted: Jan 27, 2013 @ 8:15pm
Posts: 204