Towns > General Discussions > Topic Details
muzzy (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 8:22am
Steam is responsible for the false advertising of Towns
After some whining, I finally got ragnar to give me the log of the private conversation he had with Xavi about the store page. He didn't want to give the log because private chats are private, you know, but with the talk about lawyers and FTC, this has already gotten way out of hand.

ragnar119: My suggestion is maybe to change it in something similar to this:
supermalparit: wait :)
supermalparit: we discussed that with Valve
ragnar119: Towns is still in heavy development with a lot of new features yet to be implemented.
supermalparit: they are THE BIG company
ragnar119: wait, they aprove what can be on pgae?
supermalparit: and they decided that is ok this way... is hard to make the Valve guys to change their opinion
ragnar119: page
supermalparit: oh, yes
supermalparit: we can't change it at free
ragnar119: but can you change it, so they aprove it again?
supermalparit: the do the changes but even some changes we want they not approve it
supermalparit: it is their business :( so, they have meetings and so on and decide about it

So, basically, Xavi wanted to change the store page description earlier to a more accurate one but Steam has refused to do so. This is Xavi's own words and he says Steam has decided the current description is OK and that they refuse to change it.

This means Steam is screwing over the customers here. Steam is falsely representing the game and preventing the authors from changing the description. Steam doesn't let them control how they advertise their own game here. Steam is making it look like Towns authors are lying scumbags, Steam takes the profits from disappointed customers and lets Towns developers carry the responsibility for the deception.

Discuss.
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Mumboejumboh Jan 12, 2013 @ 8:59am 
Dang, steam, what is even your deal.
Solo Solitaire (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 9:04am 
This makes me wonder then why the GMG description is the same as Steam's.
Mumboejumboh Jan 12, 2013 @ 9:17am 
Originally posted by Evecque:
This makes me wonder then why the GMG description is the same as Steam's.

Well...it actually seems that the GMG description is literally the same because it's...selling the game through steam? It could be that GMG is selling steam keys for Towns and as such is using the same description for this very reason.
Mr.Roboto Jan 12, 2013 @ 9:30am 
ive been under the impression steam had control over its own store page from the begining but thanks for the post regardless. also thank you ragnar for allowing this to be put out there. this has been an interesting couple days for sure.
muzzy (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 9:44am 
I imagine the description is old one that's been used on indie gaming sites etc and was submitted to Steam without much though. Later when the negative feedback came in Xavi must've realized that this description needs to be changed. However, steam doesn't allow changing the description to a more modest/honest version, so this is the result.

Anyway, it appears that Towns developers can only "suggest" new description for Steam, they can't change the store page on their own... and this is why the store page remains deceptive and fraudulent, and it's mostly Steam's fault at this point.

The whole situation is absolutely nuts. I'd love to hear Steam's version of the story, although I suppose we won't be hearing anything from them - I don't see them taking any responsibility in this mess.
bayne420 Jan 12, 2013 @ 9:45am 
ohh, u mean as the fact with there official forum having the identical phrase? Not quite sure, its complete to a playable standpoint, if there assumpion of complete means riddled with many conflicts that should be adressed prior to pre-emptive release, again... Im falling back on the idea of debuted as of nov 7ths release description.

If that was the verdict with providing a playable standpoint of a game to say it was complete, yet have many unknown work design faults, then should of been placed on open beta... status, however as understand the greenlit montra... Its to get indie model projects in circulation for retail sales for digital media. If it was not made with that phrase, i have no idea how active the demand would be if were to say the truth of what u were getting. Would have to expect a large enough community to support it even though the exact amount of testing has not even been showcased for it. Fundamental monetary value is one aspect that can see happening with a truth stretching attempt. The other route from a undistinguished developer, might not of even been able to cover the current stable cost for the key.

So then again is it really up to the community to get games upvoted? or was from the nov 7 debut a malicious attempt by Valve to bypass the stringent time to test?

Game dynamics aside, If steam wants to make false advertisement with there store, then its up to the consumer to verify it to the best of there talent to research other sources of info on it.

Cyborgt Jan 12, 2013 @ 10:28am 
Ok, i've heard this argument since pretty much the beginning of the controversy. The fact that another chat log has come along to "prove it" really doesn't change anything whatsoever. Once again, it doesn't say what Xavi wanted to put on the store page that Steam didn't approve of and as others have pointed out the exact same information is available elsewhere.

I'm sure it's true that Steam has to approve a change to the store page but the idea that this has kept Xavi from publishing a "more honest" Steam page doesn't mesh well with the evidence available. In short, I just don't buy it.
muzzy (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 10:36am 
Cyborgt, it's true that this log doesn't prove what he wanted to place on the store page, however I cannot see what else he might've wanted to add to the store page that the Steam refused to put there.

The key is that Steam is in control of the page, not the Towns team. Therefore Steam is responsible for the deceptive contents.

Also, this is no longer just second hand information - assuming the log is genuine (and I have no reason to doubt it) we now have Xavi's own words that the store page is out of his control and he cannot change the description. It's Steam's turn to refute this if it's not true.
mr bigdad (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:19am 
Yeah, thats bad from STEAM, but XAVI gave the initial page to them to revieuw and they do want to change but for money and XAVI doesnt want to do that. Maybe he should have been honest from the beginning and then this wouldnt have happened. XAVI is again blaming someone else. First its this, then its our words, then its vacation, then its personal problems, whats next?
mr bigdad (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:19am 
True, who says he really wanted to change. He may as well be lying in the private chat. Hes been caught lying before.
muzzy (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:20am 
In the log, Xavi says he discussed the store page with the Valve guys, and they decided it's ok the way it is, and "is hard to make the Valve guys to change their opinion". That says Xavi disagreed with Steam about the store page being ok the way it is, I don't see any other way to interpret that.

There's no evidence that he's not telling the truth so we must assume he is indeed telling the truth. Unless Steam denies anything like this ever happened, it's probably the truth.
mr bigdad (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:21am 
I dont believe a word XAVI says anymore. Why would STEAM blow a bad one on its customers over a crappy game?
Cyborgt Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:21am 
Originally posted by muzzy:
Cyborgt, it's true that this log doesn't prove what he wanted to place on the store page, however I cannot see what else he might've wanted to add to the store page that the Steam refused to put there.

I could see any number of changes both small and large that he may have wanted to make. It doesn't really interest me to speculate on a matter we have so little information on though.

Originally posted by muzzy:
The key is that Steam is in control of the page, not the Towns team. Therefore Steam is responsible for the deceptive contents.

We have no evidence of that, simply that Steam won't allow a nondescript change. As I said, this information is nothing new and proves nothing at all.

Originally posted by muzzy:
Also, this is no longer just second hand information - assuming the log is genuine (and I have no reason to doubt it) we now have Xavi's own words that the store page is out of his control and he cannot change the description. It's Steam's turn to refute this if it's not true.

Of course it's true that Steam has control over the store page. It's their servers and their service so naturally they would have to approve any and all changes to a something in it. Again, this doesn't prove that Xavi had any actual intention of doing anything "more honest" with changes to the page. All it does is point out blindingly obvious information that actually means nothing at all.

I just don't like how this is being brought up yet again as if it somehow means something when there is actually no further information about it then there was before. It's rather pointless.
muzzy (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 11:22am 
bigdad, what cases of Xavi been caught lying are you referring to? I can't think of any at the moment.
Solo Solitaire (Banned) Jan 12, 2013 @ 1:08pm 
Even if Steam is the one completely responsible for the store page, if they are really not wanting to further mislead potential customers why don't they come here and post a message that prepares the customer for the actual state of the game? They have come and posted other messages, stickied them and left, but nothing that prepares the customer for what they are buying. Rather the opposite.
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Date Posted: Jan 12, 2013 @ 8:22am
Posts: 55