Towns > General Discussions > Topic Details
Solo Solitaire Jan 11, 2013 @ 4:58am
"Rate of development"
Originally posted by supermalparit:
Hello everybody,

as you know, we still didn't released the Towns v9 patch since the release of the game on Steam. We also doesn't write in the Steam forums since a week after the release. I don't like to say it (continue reading), but I will explain the reasons.

First of all, let me say that we are not an AAA company, we are a 2-man team, Ben Palgi and me (Xavi Canal). So, if one of us have any problem/personal issue, the Towns development got hurt. Saying that, I will explain the cause of the poorly support I give to the Steam community, and I hope you understand it. Some months ago, medics detected cancer on my wife, that was a terribly hit in the face to us. After the initial impact, we more or less accepted it but we travel to the hospital in a dayly basis for months (radio and chimio therapy, tests, etc...). After that, medics tolds us that a surgery is necessary, and 2 days ago (9th jan) we received the call with the surgery date, it will be the next monday (14th january). We are pretty nervous and, I hope you understand, the Towns development will be hurt.

It sounds like an excuse, and it is. But when your life falls apart, other things but the family got hurt.

As I said in a post some time ago, I don't expect all of you understand this, you paid for a game and you want updates, it's completelly understandable.


In the other hand, let me say that I'm replying people in our official forums (at http://www.townsgame.com/forums/) and the Towns v9 development continues, you can also check the pathnotes here:
http://www.townsgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1420


So, again, sorry for our lack of information until today. And I hope we will be back on track at full after the next week.

Kind regards
Xavi Canal
Showing 1-15 of 145 comments
< >
Solo Solitaire Jan 11, 2013 @ 5:08am 
First off, I am sorry to hear about Xavi's wife. I have lost family members to cancer and I hope that does not happen to him. I can also understand how this could postpone any real progress in development until the situation is resolved. Perfectly understandable.

I began to wonder something after reading this post. While I have no idea what healthcare is like in Xavi's country, I wonder if Towns was prematurely released to pay for unexpected and costly medical bills. If I had half a product I might could pass off as complete in order to pay for treatement for my wife, I would probably do that, too. Most of us would, I think. It sacrifices his reputation and his product but I imagine I would be willing to do that if it helped my wife survive cancer.

If this was the case, I can understand why Towns is here in this state. It has been said that Greenlit games cannot be sold until complete, so under those circumstances I can understand why they would insist it was complete.

Even if all this is true, I do still have a problem with the way the store page is worded. If there is no malicious attempt to trick people the store page should have a phrase like this: "Towns is playable and enjoyable but there are many components not yet included." Some phrase like this, that prepares customers for the current state of the game, would end most of the negative discussion on this forum.
ragnar119 Jan 11, 2013 @ 5:36am 
First I really hope and wish that all goes well with the surgery. I lost one of my family member and understand as Evecque what all is Xavi going true. So best of wishes to your wife Xavi and to your whole family. Let's hope she gets healthy and beats the illness.

I agree Evecque, that is also what I was thinking for some time now.

Originally posted by Evecque:
"Towns is playable and enjoyable but there are many components not yet included." Some phrase like this, that prepares customers for the current state of the game, would end most of the negative discussion on this forum.

If it makes some people more happy than I am all for it +1.
Move Up Jan 11, 2013 @ 5:43am 
Hope everything works out for his family, it's a terrible thing to go through.
Patching a game would be the last thing on my mind.
Mr.Roboto Jan 11, 2013 @ 8:23am 
I'm sorry to hear this is what it was, assumptions were made but jeez that reality is pretty brutal. I know it doesnt amount to a hill of beans but i will still wish them both the best possible outcome. I completely understand your attention/focus in life being thrown for a serious loop in this kind of situation and i will not begrudge him no matter how this game turns out. At the end of the day i have already more than gotten my $15 dollars worth from this game, without feeling scamed. Some may consider that defending a company, to me however its simply enjoying a product.
bayne420 Jan 11, 2013 @ 9:16am 
Originally posted by Mr.Roboto:
I'm sorry to hear this is what it was, assumptions were made but jeez that reality is pretty brutal. I know it doesnt amount to a hill of beans but i will still wish them both the best possible outcome. I completely understand your attention/focus in life being thrown for a serious loop in this kind of situation and i will not begrudge him no matter how this game turns out. At the end of the day i have already more than gotten my $15 dollars worth from this game, without feeling scamed. Some may consider that defending a company, to me however its simply enjoying a product.

Those that frequent the steam store page to obtain a copy of Towns on the exact day it was greenlit only to feel scammed, only after to decide to NOT take the ideals of BUYER BEWARE for all virtual products to heart. Yet to hear that rL conflicts can cause a postponed development with updates seems like a scapegoat claim, i really did not need to hear specifics on the matter. Sure its a well thought out topic with alot of detail, yet to hear its a life threatening issue makes it all the more worse to know about.

In all fairness, it IS a complete flagship model for Towns... alot of possibilities yet to be included, even if not added due to unforseen reasons to abandon it, the value of the game is still enjoyable.
muzzy (Banned) Jan 11, 2013 @ 10:13am 
The story is consistent with the rumors I've been hearing, but indeed, I had also been wondering if paying the medical bills was the reason for pushing the game on Steam.

If you search the original forums for own posts, you can see Xavi offering refunds to people even when it costs them more money than they got from the sale, etc. Back then, he said it's better to take the loss than to have unhappy customers. Somehow, this has changed, and now he's rather having the unhappy customers. Is it the money or what exactly caused this attitude change?

It's obvious there is some unknown reason why he chose to rush the game to the market. I just hope he's not going to regret the decisions he made. But I can understand if it was the medical fees thing, not using the opportunity could've left him with much more regrets later on...

I don't really know what to think about this whole mess, but the store page still needs to change ASAP.
MrBEST Jan 11, 2013 @ 10:33am 
There is a very good saying where I come from "Do the bulls balls hurt when the cow gives birth ??" Why should I care for his personal problems? Did he care when i bought the game that I won't have any money to buy medicine or would he give me my money back then ?? I don't think so, this is a poor excuse also i do belive that they both sold about lets say 10k copies of the game at least on steam multiply that 11 times and you get quite a nice sum nice enough to HIRE SOME Fing HELP!! All that said and done I do hope that it will all end for the best and that the surgery ends in a gret sucness without any complications and full remission.
Cyborgt Jan 11, 2013 @ 10:34am 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
Another thing that needs to be said, if he is unable to continue the promised development of this game, then he needs to either hire someone to take over the programming duties for him or sell the rights of the game off to someone else... That is, if there are any willing to buy Towns from them.

As much as I agree with this conceptually, the practical part of it would probably be a bit more complicated than that. If the coding is anywhere near as bad as muzzy has implied in the past then it could take quite a while to teach someone new how to make changes to the game. If you're only expecting to be gone for a month, even two, it may not prove worth the trouble to teach that person if you have no desire to have a third permanent dev.

As for selling it off entirely, I rather doubt anyone would be interested given it's a niche market that already has competition on greenlight. It's also just as likely to be a move that kills the game as it is to be one that revitalizes it. Ultimately, the best possible move really probably was for them to just properly communicate the situation and take some personal time off. It's just unfortunate that they chose to release the game among all this, or all this happened right after the release. Whichever is the case.

I wish Xavi and his wife the best in these troubling times.
Cyborgt Jan 11, 2013 @ 11:31am 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
Ultimately, the best possible move really probably was for them to just properly communicate the situation and take some personal time off. It's just unfortunate that they chose to release the game among all this, or all this happened right after the release. Whichever is the case.

No, more "personal time off" is not acceptable. While one was having a vacation right after the launch on Steam, the other could've been working on furthering the code. Yet, he was having his "personal crisis" and already had time off for that in the form of his decision to almost quit development of Towns after promising continual development of Towns on their Steam page. No, any "personal time off" will further legitimize the argument against SMP that this is nothing more than a cash grab.

They made their decision to release the game early. Now, they're having to deal with the consequences of their decision.

Ok, I didn't say MORE personal time off. I was simply saying that what they've already done was really the best they could have done under the circumstances from a business perspective. From a PR perspective, they failed miserably since they only recently started communicating the situation.

It was also a miserable failure that the dev who wasn't experiencing this personal tragedy decided to go on vacation just as they were releasing the game. Either of those could have easily been moved on the calendar to make that less of a problem (and yes I know what that "vacation" was and that it had long since been planned.) They probably should have just postponed the release of the game till after the first dev got back but it's too late for that now.

As I said before, the best possible move would have been to properly communicate their situation from the start, take some personal time off (as they already have), and get back to it as soon as they could (which it sounds like they're trying to do.) If all this happened while the game was still officially an alpha, it would have gone by with hardly any problems. Sadly, they chose to release the game before doing the second part of my scenario without doing the first. As a result, things have turned out FAR worse than they could/should have turned out.

I am not by any means giving them a pass on this whole situation but it seems to me like a matter of timing and communication which turned an otherwise perfectly reasonable handling of the situation into the mess that it is now.
thomasrabelo Jan 11, 2013 @ 12:01pm 
No matter what, the game should not have been released. I bought it, and I repent. It´s not complete. It's pretty buggy and pretty expensive for the game it is. There are a lot of better and completely finished games cheaper than Towns. Problem isn´t being bad. A bad game is a bad game, ok. But one does not sell a beta or alpha game telling you it's a finished version.
mr bigdad Jan 11, 2013 @ 12:24pm 
I feel sorry for you and your wife. I hope she will get well soon. But after all these tales of hunnymoon and our comments making you want to stop and then this. Why not tell us sooner, so we would understand. It all just looks like .... to me. But that being said, I do understand why you havent developed on. But still, saying your not an AAA company with only 2 people, well Gnomoria has the same and can come with updates. Oh well, the best to you both and to your family. But be honest with us, change the page and tell them you wont be updating anytime soon.
AntiVi Jan 11, 2013 @ 3:11pm 
Originally posted by mr bigdad:
I feel sorry for you and your wife. I hope she will get well soon. But after all these tales of hunnymoon and our comments making you want to stop and then this. Why not tell us sooner, so we would understand. It all just looks like .... to me. But that being said, I do understand why you havent developed on. But still, saying your not an AAA company with only 2 people, well Gnomoria has the same and can come with updates. Oh well, the best to you both and to your family. But be honest with us, change the page and tell them you wont be updating anytime soon.

You can't compare 2 games and 2 teams in the same way they are both different one or the other may be more experienced with certain aspects of game development.
People have personal issues families jobs etc...
You can't compare developers or games with each other!
Cyborgt Jan 11, 2013 @ 3:24pm 
Originally posted by AntiVi:
Originally posted by mr bigdad:
I feel sorry for you and your wife. I hope she will get well soon. But after all these tales of hunnymoon and our comments making you want to stop and then this. Why not tell us sooner, so we would understand. It all just looks like .... to me. But that being said, I do understand why you havent developed on. But still, saying your not an AAA company with only 2 people, well Gnomoria has the same and can come with updates. Oh well, the best to you both and to your family. But be honest with us, change the page and tell them you wont be updating anytime soon.

You can't compare 2 games and 2 teams in the same way they are both different one or the other may be more experienced with certain aspects of game development.
People have personal issues families jobs etc...
You can't compare developers or games with each other!

First, isn't that what you and many others trying to defend Towns have been doing from the beginning? I can't tell you how many times i've heard comparisons between Towns and Minecraft as if that were somehow favorable to Towns.

Second, what you're saying here is that the devs of Towns just might suck at their jobs so it's unfair to compare them to someone that doesn't. That's not even remotely a true statement. If they're not as good at some part of the development process as their "peers," they should be looking to improve themselves. As such, comparisons both between games and the developers behind them are entirely fair.

As for the comparison between Towns and Gnomoria, the only way in which I see it as being potentially unfair is that it's my understanding they use different coding languages. If the one being used by Gnomoria is somehow easier to work with (something I have no idea whether that's the case) then it becomes more understandable that Towns moves so much slower. It still means the Towns devs probably made a poor choice in which language to use before they started but at least it would be a reason.
Mumboejumboh Jan 11, 2013 @ 3:32pm 
Originally posted by AntiVi:
You can't compare 2 games and 2 teams in the same way they are both different one or the other may be more experienced with certain aspects of game development.
People have personal issues families jobs etc...
You can't compare developers or games with each other!

That's like saying you can't compare things that are similar just because they aren't exactly the same. The point of comparison is to point out the similarities present between two things, particularly if they share circumstances or the like. Gnomoria and Towns are both city management games that are similar not only in the style of game, but in the people behind it as well.

In regards to Xavi's situation...the man has my sympathies. It's harsh to demand that someone going through that kind of trouble put forth work on a video game (stick with me here, I haven't finished my sentence yet) but in all fairness...he's only just now decided to inform people of this. It's tough to deal with a loved one having cancer...but it doesn't take that much time or effort to make a post on the internet informing people of what's going on. As much as I wish him the best with what's happening...I still think he botched things with Towns really bad.
AntiVi Jan 11, 2013 @ 3:47pm 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
Originally posted by AntiVi:
Originally posted by mr bigdad:
I feel sorry for you and your wife. I hope she will get well soon. But after all these tales of hunnymoon and our comments making you want to stop and then this. Why not tell us sooner, so we would understand. It all just looks like .... to me. But that being said, I do understand why you havent developed on. But still, saying your not an AAA company with only 2 people, well Gnomoria has the same and can come with updates. Oh well, the best to you both and to your family. But be honest with us, change the page and tell them you wont be updating anytime soon.

You can't compare 2 games and 2 teams in the same way they are both different one or the other may be more experienced with certain aspects of game development.
People have personal issues families jobs etc...
You can't compare developers or games with each other!

Yes... yes you can. Especially when the Towns Defense Squad keeps using SMP's dev size and part time status as an excuse for SMP's lack of updates.

That makes no sense at all and no you can't
Showing 1-15 of 145 comments
< >
Per page: 15 30 50
Date Posted: Jan 11, 2013 @ 4:58am
Posts: 184