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Azrael Feb 5 @ 11:21pm
Refund possible?
Is it actually possible to get a refund for this game?
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Solo Solitaire Feb 5 @ 11:24pm 
Very unlikely.

You might try to work the angle that when you bought it it said there would be continual updates, then, without an update for several months, the statement was removed and the game is still very lacking.

Good luck if you try.
muzzy (Banned) Feb 6 @ 1:41am 
Steam doesn't really like to give refunds...
BlackWolf117 Feb 6 @ 12:20pm 
Originally posted by muzzy:
Steam doesn't really like to give refunds...

Then steam shouldnt have allowed for such a ♥♥♥♥ game to go on steam,the least they could of done was to tell us that the game is ♥♥♥♥ and a waste of money...
muzzy (Banned) Feb 6 @ 12:53pm 
Not only did Steam allow such a crappy unfinished game to be sold, after the game launched they had it on the featured games list on the front page for quite a while.

So yeah, I don't think they'll refund it unless you can somehow force them to. Good luck.
Burningpet Feb 6 @ 11:20pm 
Thanks for your opinion Nalidus.

I'll just have to comment about the Screenshot bit - its a complete and utter lie that i have no idea where you have picked that one from.

Everything that is shown in the screenshots can be recreated in the vanilla version.

The only mod those people ever used, was a "creative mod" that saved the players a lot of time. and since non of the screenshots, or the store page, promise that you will have no effort at building those or that you could build those in 2 seconds, i don't think that falls into false advertising. let me rephrase it, i know it doesn't.

morally or legally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with those screenshots.

You could argue about all the rest, even though i don't think steam will refund you, but the screenshots bit is something which is simply not true and i'd advice you to leave that one out if you ever wanna appear to be making a serious claim.

I take it as a general discussion, rather than trying to defend the game, because i gain nothing by defending it, and even if refunds will be issued, xavi will be the one having to pay for it, not me.
muzzy (Banned) Feb 7 @ 12:33am 
Burningpet, except they aren't literally screenshots. They are sitched photoshopped pictures that show no user interface and aren't giving any kind of impression about the actual gameplay. Only the last one is actually a screenshot, the rest are just pretty pictures.
Cyborgt Feb 7 @ 12:36am 
As I understand it, the three primary points that were being made about the screenshots back when that argument first came up were as follows:

1. There was no way to view your town (or consequently take a screenshot of it) in the manner displayed in the screenshots.

2. Objects in the game had shadows which is not something shown in the screenshots and significantly affects how things appear.

3. The third screenshot was made through the efforts of modding which created a map at least slightly different than is possible in the vanilla version of the game.

The first one is fairly inconsequential as it mostly pertains to the fact that they don't have a visible hud (impossible to remove it completely in the vanilla game) and show a zoomed out perspective that the game doesn't have. I don't really see that as being a big deal because many of them are pretty obvious photoshop images which is something done in many games.

The second one is just the consequence of the game being updated and as such is hardly a big deal either. I know I don't expect every developer to go back to their store page and remove/replace every image every time they make a visible change (though that change was made even before the game went live on Steam.)

The third point is where things get a bit more tricky. I never played on a sand map so I can't really speak as to how things work as you dig down its layers or whether this problem applies to sand but given that you could never really replace the generated terrain in Towns it seems to me like it might actually be showing something impossible in vanilla. The structure shown there is too tall to exist without having to dig down several layers by which point (assuming it's anything like the normal map of course) you would have hit stone. Some of that shows in the screenshot but not on the level you would encounter in the game.

As I understand it the mod used removed the maps enemies, changed the map generation to remove as much of the river as possible and raised the max build height significantly. Now those can certainly be argued as nothing more than time savers but at least the last one has a large enough effect to be argued otherwise.

All that being said, I couldn't care less about the screenshots. I only bother saying this because I feel it's important to point out that the argument relating to the screenshots is not ENTIRELY without merit. It may not be enough to be illegal but that doesn't mean Nalidus doesn't have a point when he brings them up.
muzzy (Banned) Feb 7 @ 12:57am 
Cyborgt, I actually think the zoomed out pictures without UI is the biggest deal. Nothing in those pictures gives any real impression about what the game is like.

I had no idea every block in the pictures had been placed by a player. I thought the pictures showcased game content and you could somehow interact with the buildings and things in the pictures.

The screenshots are similar to how some graphics creation software are showcasing art created with them as "screenshots". The difference is that Towns is sold as a game, not as a content creation tool. The screenshots are thus misleading and deceptive.
Cyborgt Feb 7 @ 1:10am 
Fair point. I probably downplayed a lot of it just because, as I stated at the end of my post, I couldn't care less about the screenshots. That part was never a major sticking point for me in part because I've never used store page screenshots to guage the value of a game. Sometimes I flip through them when i'm looking at a long list of games (like when there's a big sale) but only to determine if it's even worth sitting through the game's trailer.

If the game looks interesting after that, I immediately go looking for youtube videos and/or other information like reviews or forum threads. This process makes the store page screenshots fairly inconsequential to me which is why I don't really see it as a problem. I understand why others do though which is why I felt it necessary to explain the issue to Ben. If he's going to have any chance of leaving this behind him, he's going to have to be perfectly aware of every way that things went even slightly wrong with Towns and avoid them as much as possible in the future.
Solo Solitaire Feb 7 @ 1:36am 
Excellent point. You'd hate to see the Delvers store page do the same thing.
Burningpet Feb 7 @ 4:09am 
Hmm... i am actually starting to see your points. however, i do still think those things are kinda minor and i utterly object to the argument that the creations presented in the screenshots themselves cannot be recreated in the game, except maybe for the desert one which does force the player to download a mod to alter the map generation.

More so, i have taken a look at the first game i saw on the steam store page - Warframe, and took a look at Starbound, portal 2, Team fortress 2, Borderlands 2 and Dota 2. in only two screenshot out of the 2-3 dozens, one shows a screenshot that has UI in it. in many of these screenshots, the camera angles are unrealistic, and in some, the images are heavily modified, not to the extent of piecing together direct existing screenshots, but modified far more.

In this regard, you are making a mountain out of a mouse.
Solo Solitaire Feb 7 @ 4:19am 
Most of us aren't harping on it, but with the history of Towns, I think you would be better off avoiding anything a person could point to and say "He's doing it again!" Even if it's a small thing.
muzzy (Banned) Feb 7 @ 4:38am 
Burningpet, the problem is that Towns is nothing like what you'd expect from the description and the pictures. There isn't really any rpg, there isn't any town management, no strategy either. There's only some food supply management and resource gathering, and then a sandbox building game that doesn't serve any functional value.

I checked the examples you gave of other games. Warframe actually has videos, the second video shows what appears to be actual in-game footage (although no UI) and third person shooters are a fairly well established genre. Starbound has a trailer with actual gameplay footage which describes exactly what you can do in the game. Portal 2 has a trailer too, the second video shows actual game mechanics even though it's cinematic, and since it's a second game in a series it would get away with even less. Didn't check the rest, but I imagine it'll be the same for them as well.

The media on the store page should help the customer understand what the game is like, and Towns screenshots fail at that.
ragnar119 Feb 7 @ 4:38am 
Just a simple in game videos should fix all possible problems, as towns doesnt have one. The screenshot are ok, but there must be a video to go with them
Last edited by ragnar119; Feb 7 @ 5:22am
ragnar119 Feb 7 @ 5:21am 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
The third point is where things get a bit more tricky. I never played on a sand map so I can't really speak as to how things work as you dig down its layers or whether this problem applies to sand but given that you could never really replace the generated terrain in Towns it seems to me like it might actually be showing something impossible in vanilla. The structure shown there is too tall to exist without having to dig down several layers by which point (assuming it's anything like the normal map of course) you would have hit stone. Some of that shows in the screenshot but not on the level you would encounter in the game.

Actually, it is posible to make that screenshot, because you can make sand blocks. But they can not be used to plant trees and similar on them, they just looks as sand (you have grass blocks and other type of blocks also), so the screenshot is posible, if you dig few layers of and put sand blocks on top of stone ones
Last edited by ragnar119; Feb 7 @ 5:23am
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