SiriusTexra 2013年1月10日 23時16分
Ok, that's it. I've had it. Why are all these point and click games 2D bitmap things
Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ing why.

It's the one genre of game where doing a 3D environment would be just too easy next to nothing is animated. I'm a 3D artist myself, I know these things.

It's why they never sell well. Because you just know for a fact, it's going to be this low res rasterized bitmap background collection featuring a poorly lit 3D character model roaming around it.

If your going to do it, take it further and make it look photorealistic or something. Kind of like resident evil 1 but you can use the gpu entirely to do a handful of characters on screen and the rest on a prerendered background.

But no, it's just constant 2D renders with 3d models hideously juddering about over the top. It's annoying, distracting and it's 2013 ffs.

Just....learn a 3D program. Telltale are literally the only ones who do it properly. Surprise surprise, they're the most successful ones in this field.

That is all.
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KEV1N 2013年1月11日 0時11分 
SiriusTexra の投稿を引用:
If your going to do it, take it further and make it look photorealistic or something. Kind of like resident evil 1

You're a funny guy.
theowaern  [開発者] 2013年1月11日 1時24分 
SiriusTexra: There are plenty of point-n-click adventure games that employ realtime rendered 3d environments and characters, check out the latest Sherlock Holmes game from frogwares, for an instance, they do it real good!

We chose to go with pre-rendered characters because it's more reliable from a technical perspective. You know what you get and you have way less issues with compatibility across different platforms. (TJD is on Pc, Mac, Linux and iOS, after all.)

But I do agree, that when done right, real time rendered characters can look real sweet. Lighting a real-time rendered character so it blends in is a lot easier than lighting a static 2d sprite, that's for sure.

If you'd like to check out a point-n-click game that has done an amazing job combining pre-rendered backdrops with realtime rendered characters, I recommend checkin' out "The book of unwritten tales". I haven't played the game myself other than the demo so I can only vouch for the visual quality of the game - it's quite incredible. :)
Schnurri 2013年1月11日 2時17分 
Actually i believe that 2D is the better choice for point n click adventures. It is not easy to do things in 3D so that everything still "looks nice". Hand-drawn 2D animations are often way better (but of course they are rather expensive, most games won't have a new animation for any action). Also, there are many additional problems in 3D like path finding, camera positioning and so on... If you ever played one of these adventure games that were forced to be 3D because they were produced at a time where people (like you ;-) ) thought that 2D was obsolete, you'd know what i mean :-D
TheShabbyOrange 2013年1月11日 10時24分 
2D is the better choice for point and click, hands down. Been playing PnC games since forever.
I'd rather we keep this style alive than adapt it to todays "standards".
Schnurri 2013年1月11日 14時26分 
I hope you were beeing sarcastic :-D
jfrisby 2013年1月11日 15時17分 
Err, I thought we were in the era where we we're thrilled people are finally appreciating the 2D hand-painted look again... After a decade of painfully difficult control schemes and the instantly dated look of old 3D.
Kyubashi 2013年1月11日 15時49分 
SiriusTexra の投稿を引用:
Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ing why.

It's the one genre of game where doing a 3D environment would be just too easy next to nothing is animated. I'm a 3D artist myself, I know these things.

It's why they never sell well. Because you just know for a fact, it's going to be this low res rasterized bitmap background collection featuring a poorly lit 3D character model roaming around it.

If your going to do it, take it further and make it look photorealistic or something. Kind of like resident evil 1 but you can use the gpu entirely to do a handful of characters on screen and the rest on a prerendered background.

But no, it's just constant 2D renders with 3d models hideously juddering about over the top. It's annoying, distracting and it's 2013 ffs.

Just....learn a 3D program. Telltale are literally the only ones who do it properly. Surprise surprise, they're the most successful ones in this field.

That is all.

Thank you Sirius. You gave me great chuckles!
Qdarks 2013年1月11日 21時07分 
no way, point and click games are best in 2d enviroment, lets not change an old style. if you want 3d graphics and point and click go play walking dead
Hannibal's Leftovers 2013年1月11日 23時11分 
The only "artist" Ive ever heard speak so poorly of a fellow artist is an unsuccessful one. They tend to rage against the ones who have seen any type of success. Good luck with that attitude when trying to find a job in this field.

/
最近の変更はHannibal's Leftoversが行いました; 2013年1月11日 23時12分
Motoki 2013年1月11日 23時33分 
It's funny, I used to call this phenomenon 'Walking on a painting' because that's what it looked like at times with some of those old games like Resident Evil and Final Fantasy 7 etc. It bothered me somewhat then, but these days in some cases I actually find it charming.

FWIW, I own this game (on Desura via one of the prior Indie Royale bundles) and I think the way they did it blends really well. The characters really look like they belong on the background and it meshes well. When I think back to some of the old games circa the 1990s that used this technique in many cases it didn't blend well at all and the characters stuck out like a sore thumb, but this simply isn't the case here.

As for why, well it's like any indie game. One reason is it's a stylistic choice but the bigger reason is of course that they don't have the resources like some mid to large level development houses have so it's really prohibitive for them to be able to make something akin to a big budget game.

When you're putting a fully 3D environment in it's a lot more work, a lot more things to worry about that can go wrong and realistically for a point and click adventure I don't know that it makes that much of a difference.
gusgreco7 2013年1月12日 1時40分 
well its obvious the op doesnt know much about adventure games, i have played all kinds of adventure games all these years and i dont mind if they are designed in 2d or 3d environment, its the story and puzzles and atmosphere that count
saying that it doesnt mean that adventures in 3d are not good or buggy as others have written, but i guess it takes more resources and money to do them, myst5,sherlock holmes games, dreamfall,indigo prophecy and many more fine examples of that.
i always dreamed of an adventure game set in something like a far cry universe with freedom of movement and non linear gameplay, but who would risk something like that? so its up to indie developers to reinvent the genre and i support them (miasmata a grreat effort by an indie developer is a very good start)
p.s another category of adventure games i miss are the ones with fmv sequences in them, like the tex murphy series or gabriel knight2 ,if done right those can be extremely immersive games
Henrik_Englund 2013年1月12日 1時44分 
I think 2D and 3D are just different stiles of showing art. To make a game look good in 3D with out having a large staff is really hard. We are only three... We have to do everything from building the game, marketing it and also do other works to earn the cash to build the game. We was talking about making the characters in 3D, but its just to much problems. Also you have a limited amount of joints and polygons to work with.
Shoes 2013年1月12日 1時44分 
jimrad1 の投稿を引用:
The only "artist" Ive ever heard speak so poorly of a fellow artist is an unsuccessful one. They tend to rage against the ones who have seen any type of success. Good luck with that attitude when trying to find a job in this field.
Exactly!

OP, if you feel that being able to operate a computer/3d package/pencil etc. makes you an artist, then you've completely missed the point of what an artist is or does.
kingstone426  [開発者] 2013年1月12日 4時10分 
Motoki の投稿を引用:
FWIW, I own this game (on Desura via one of the prior Indie Royale bundles) and I think the way they did it blends really well. The characters really look like they belong on the background and it meshes well. When I think back to some of the old games circa the 1990s that used this technique in many cases it didn't blend well at all and the characters stuck out like a sore thumb, but this simply isn't the case here.
One interesting point here that shouldn't be overlooked is that we use color tinting to blend the characters into the environment, a technique that wasn't possible during the 90s. So while we borrow 90s point-n-click aesthetics we actually use shaders to improve the blending of the scene. There's also oscillating and noise alpha overlay effects that you see wherever there's a candle or flickering light in the game - this is not per-frame animations.

So is TJD really as old-school as it looks? I would argue not (theo, henrik do you agree?) because even though the final frames are all 2D, all the characters and many of the scenes are modelled, illuminated and pre-rendered in 3D before they're blended together in the engine. This was definitely not an option for Ron Gilbert & co when they set out to create The Secret of Monkey Island.
UGUU 2013年1月12日 6時59分 
This guy seriously has to understand that not everyone has a team of skilled coders, graphic artists and what else required for that kind of game. This game is running on a very simplistic engine which the team had skills to create.

Also don't go waving around your "I'm a three-dee artist, I'm higher than you" -card, man. I'm such myself and I keep that ♥♥♥♥ to myself. Artists alone can't do jack ♥♥♥♥ without a good engine and someone with skills to operate it.
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