PAYDAY 2 > General Discussions > Topic Details
OJ191 Feb 3 @ 7:55pm
No reason we can't have a balanced and useful bolt action rifle
I know people hate this discussion and many feel there is no room for a bolt action in this game, but at the same time there are also people who like bolt actions (including me) and there is no actual reason why they could not be both useful and balanced. Though I would say there would be no room for any variety beyond one, maybe two, either they would end up all the same just looking different or you would end up with one balanced and the rest either OP or UP.

If I were to make a bolt action rifle for use I would make it:

Case 1:
  • 1s bolt cycle with forced 2x minimum scope
  • 80-100 total ammo
  • 1 ammo per drop otherwise you would get too much ammo back between waves
  • 1 shot headshots all units except for dozers and black dozers in case
  • 3 shot headshots dozers - first breaks outer plate, second breaks inner plate, third kills.
  • 4 shots black dozers - two breaks outer, one breaks inner, one kills.
  • Pierces tan armour for a 2 shot chest kill (even with ghost piercing skills still two shot kill)
  • Pierces shields for a 3 shot kill or 1 headshot 1 shot anywhere else.
  • EXTREME spread/deviation when not ADS

Case 2:
  • 2s bolt cycle with no scope restrictions including ironsights allowed
  • 40-60 total ammo
  • 1 ammo per drop
  • 1 shot headshots all units except dozers, black dozers, and cloakers
  • cloakers are 1 headshot and 1 shot anywhere else to kill due to easier aiming with lower zoom
  • 4 shot headshots dozers, 2 outer plate, 1 inner plate, 1 kill
  • 5 shots black dozers, 3 outer plate, 1 inner plate, 1 kill
  • Pierces tan armour for a 3 shot chest kill, or two shots with ghost piercing skill/s
  • Pierces shields for a 4 shot kills, 3 shot kill with one headshot or 2 shot kill with all headshots.
  • EXTREME spread/deviation when not ADS

Feel free to discuss and tweak if you feel something is OP or UP but this is (roughly) how I feel a bolt action rifle could be both balanced and useful.

Bear in mind the dozer numbers are like that because while they will probably disallow you from getting dozer kills if even one other person is shooting at the dozer, even one single shot to their faceplate will make the job vastly easier - in other words, use teamwork instead of expecting to one shot dozers.

Originally posted by candle:
i'd like it to pierce enemies

or maybe pierce solid objects for reduced damage

I didn't want to take it too far, especially as I don't know engine limitations. The shield piercing idea may not even be possible!

Assuming it's possible, I'd say 50% damage after piercing visually "armoured" enemies, 25% damage after piercing tan chest plates, full damage after piercing visually unarmoured enemies. Maybe 75%/50% with both ghost perks.

Also assumign it's possible I'd say -50% damage to pierce cover and it would only be thin cover. So can only pierce one wall. Maybe -25% damage if you have both ghost piercing perks on but still only pierces one wall.
Last edited by OJ191; Feb 3 @ 11:00pm
Showing 1-15 of 66 comments
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Rhadamant Feb 3 @ 8:02pm 
What's your issue with the 308? I know its not bolt action, but it is the closest to a bolt action rifle this game has to offer.
OJ191 Feb 3 @ 8:03pm 
Originally posted by ViN Rhadamant:
What's your issue with the 308? I know its not bolt action, but it is the closest to a bolt action rifle this game has to offer.

At the moment we have no true "HVT elimination weapon", even fully modded the M308 requires multiple headshots on tasers and cloakers, and nearly (or even actually) a full mag on regular dozers let alone black dozers.

The idea is that you now have a weapon which is useless in close range but absolutely amazing in mid-long range (by game standards not IRL standards lol), and has the max ammo to back it up since you can't use it to go pick up ammo.

Obviously in Case #2 I toned down the max ammo and bolt cycle to account for the potential for closer range action and ammo pickups, but my favourite would be Case #1


It also provides a niche use for killing shields at range.
candlejack Feb 3 @ 8:03pm 
Originally posted by ViN Rhadamant:
What's your issue with the 308? I know its not bolt action, but it is the closest to a bolt action rifle this game has to offer.

no issue, just doesn't fulfill that sniping urge
Sir Dick Drizzle Feb 3 @ 8:03pm 
A bolt action rifle would be so damn inefficient it's not even funny. There's absolutely nothing that'd justify such a low TTK, not to mention the fact there's literally no map in the game that'd justify its range. It gets beaten by the .308 in every conceivable aspect that there's nothing that'd warrant bolt-action.

But I honestly wouldn't mind Overkill implementing such a weapon. Then I'd know what kind of pillock I should kick before it's too late.


Originally posted by candle:
Originally posted by ViN Rhadamant:
What's your issue with the 308? I know its not bolt action, but it is the closest to a bolt action rifle this game has to offer.

no issue, just doesn't fulfill that sniping urge


Wrong game.
It seems that each suggestion here has too much total ammunition. Keep in mind that the M308 only has 40 total.
candlejack Feb 3 @ 8:05pm 
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:
Wrong game.

I'm sure I can finish most missions loud with only my secondary. So a slow primary isn't going to hold me back.
OJ191 Feb 3 @ 8:06pm 
Originally posted by Space Dragon with a Jetpack:
It seems that each suggestion here has too much total ammunition. Keep in mind that the M308 only has 40 total.

Keep in mind that the M308 is semi auto and can even be set to full auto now

Originally posted by candle:
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:
Wrong game.

I'm sure I can finish most missions loud with only my secondary. So a slow primary isn't going to hold me back.

Pretty much. The idea is that you have something for picking off targets at range, including one shotting tasers and cloakers and severely damaging dozers, and even dealing damage to (or even killing if you get follow up shots) shields through their shield.

Then if you get into close combat you swap to your secondary, ideally an automatic or the locomotive to defend yourself.

Although you could accomplish the same effect on some maps with any gun if shields didn't have ESP to look right at you all the time lol.
Sir Dick Drizzle Feb 3 @ 8:07pm 
Originally posted by candle:
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:
Wrong game.

I'm sure I can finish most missions loud with only my secondary. So a slow primary isn't going to hold me back.

Then you're just an inefficient PD2 player and a bit of a twonk.

Welcome to the black-list.

Originally posted by OJ191:
Originally posted by Space Dragon with a Jetpack:
It seems that each suggestion here has too much total ammunition. Keep in mind that the M308 only has 40 total.

Keep in mind that the M308 is semi auto and can even be set to full auto now

If you don't understand the simplicity of weapons being balanced around their damage to ammo ratio, then you shouldn't be allowed to speak on weapon balance in any capacity.
candlejack Feb 3 @ 8:08pm 
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:
Originally posted by candle:

I'm sure I can finish most missions loud with only my secondary. So a slow primary isn't going to hold me back.

Then you're just inefficient an PD2 player and a bit of a twonk.

Welcome to the black-list.

the fact that you keep a blacklist is what makes you a twonk

wtf is a twonk?
candlejack Feb 3 @ 8:11pm 
i'd like it to pierce enemies

or maybe pierce solid objects for reduced damage
OJ191 Feb 3 @ 8:12pm 
Originally posted by candle:
i'd like it to pierce enemies

or maybe pierce solid objects for reduced damage

I didn't want to take it too far, especially as I don't know engine limitations.

Assuming it's possible, I'd say 50% damage after piercing visually "armoured" enemies, 25% damage after piercing tan chest plates, full damage after piercing visually unarmoured enemies. Maybe 75%/50% with both ghost perks.

Also assumign it's possible I'd say -50% damage to pierce cover and it would only be thin cover. So can only pierce one wall. Maybe -25% damage if you have both ghost piercing perks on but still only pierces one wall

Originally posted by candle:
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:

Then you're just inefficient an PD2 player and a bit of a twonk.

Welcome to the black-list.

the fact that you keep a blacklist is what makes you a twonk

wtf is a twonk?

I have no idea lol.

He does have a slight point, using a sniper on EVERY map would be dumb, but there are plenty that it would have use on. Off the top of my head there are watchdogs both days, and big oil day two. Probably the rooftop of the Bank as well but that ones a bit less ranged and thus a bit more iffy.


Also there is no reason NOT to have more weapon variety, if you don't like people playing with them then just ask them to change and if they don't you kick them.
Vred (banned) Feb 3 @ 8:14pm 
Overkill can't even make good LMGs, bolt-action rifles would be even more useless. I'd kick anyone using it in my games
candlejack Feb 3 @ 8:15pm 
is the game so hard for you that your team needs to always use the best weapons?
Benlightenment Feb 3 @ 8:16pm 
Originally posted by Sir ♥♥♥♥ Drizzle:
Then you're just inefficient an PD2 player and a bit of a twonk.

Welcome to the black-list.

> Manages to finish heists using only a secondary
> Therefore saves everyone ammo
> Inefficient

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Vred (banned) Feb 3 @ 8:16pm 
Originally posted by candle:
is the game so hard for you that your team needs to always use the best weapons?
The best performance, always
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Date Posted: Feb 3 @ 7:55pm
Posts: 66