paul.maud.dib Oct 26, 2012 @ 7:19am
Steam the chance for wargamers to put their money where their mouth is
To all that would not claim they are wargamers, this game is a good chance to see what we in wargaming call a 'wargame' which to us by the way is NOT something that looks like Call of Duty or Battlefield (we call those arcade shooters). It isn't a crime to be something like Call of Duty of course, they are perfectly fine games.

But to those that DO call themselves wargamers (like myself), this game now on Steam pretty much is a call to put up or shut up. Long have many of us whined and tried to coerce those that make our wargames, to get something on Steam and see just whether or not Steam can bring in the bucks (like so many say it can).

The game is normally a 40 dollar purchase, which by the way is only 2/3s the cost of a more typical complex more involved and not all that beginner friendly wargame. So it being here at 20 bucks is both a treat and an opportunity to stand up and be counted, or to sit down and shut up.

There is no 'played it in X hours and beat it' aspect in wargaming. Generally when you buy a real wargame, they NEVER cease to be replayable. I have wargames from 97 that still dominate the wargaming market in their category. The average wargame usually only gets patches after the first several months to further trim up the accuracy (if needed at all), and in most cases the games are supported with the idea the support isn't going away till all the fans have gone away.

If you really want to get a new level of challenge, give Unity of Command a try. No annoying teanagers, no aggravating bot using cheaters, and the REAL thrill of victory when you get a win, because you will have had to earn it.

Oh and just to clarify, I have zero connection with the product and I have zero connection to anyone in any official capacity. I'm just yet another wargamer (hoping Steam can help wargaming).
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Tw2Brick Oct 26, 2012 @ 8:34am 
I have always loved the Panzer General series and am desperate to play this game! I'd like to see if I am a true wargamer as you suggest.

But, alas I'll probably have to wait until Christmas or my birthday (dec 28) to get it, as money is very tight.

I even posted on the Gog boards:

I really enjoy turn based strategy games and have always been fascinated by the WW2 battle of Stalingrad. I am short of cash at the moment and am hoping for an act of kindness the likes of which I have seen in this thread on many, many occasions.

___

So, yes, I am begging (which I normally do not do) but I've got to play this game somehow.

Have a great day!

EDIT:

Never give up hope, friends. A kind hearted soul has made my day this day and I will soon be merrily playing this wonderful game.

LIfe is good!
Last edited by Tw2Brick; Oct 26, 2012 @ 11:33am
jday305 Oct 26, 2012 @ 8:36am 
I have to agree with you 100%. As a wargamer from the 80's with the old board and counter games to seeing the rise of computer war games in the late 80's and 90's, I have missed games like this one and bought it on steam as soon as it came out. I love this game but cuss out the computer opponent at least two or three time each time I play it. I can only hope this will not be a one of its kind in the future as I will look forward to the next installment of this system or a new true war strategy game.
Brandtner Oct 26, 2012 @ 10:49am 
I support this.
Can't remember how often I tried the US-Invasion scenario in the original Panzer General.
This game already made me try the indroduction scenario 6 times, because I wanted to get a brilliant victory :)
This will be so much fun.
how-hiGh Oct 26, 2012 @ 12:51pm 
Well written, totally support you.
Buxaroo Oct 26, 2012 @ 1:38pm 
I'm an old time hex-based wargamer, I must have had 20+ boxes of wargames back in the 80s/90s, and this game will be added to my steam catalog next week :). I love wargames (as OP said, these are the REAL wargames, not FPS games), and this is also a great price. I played the demo, and I gotta say it's pretty damn slick and I want to support the company to keep them coming. In the past I would be really heavily into games like War in the East, but it's a litte too complex for my gaming habits nowadays. This game strikes the perfect balance for me. I hope they continue to make more wargames based off of this engine, I would LOVE to see El Alemein/North Africa campaign using this engine.
Ellye Oct 26, 2012 @ 1:43pm 
A bit of a nitpick, but this is not the first wargame on Steam. At very least, I would consider the Elven Legacy series to be wargames (sure, the fantasy theme might not lure everyone in, but they certainly are wargames).

Anyway, yep, I agree with you, OP! And I'll be purchasing this game pretty soon, just tried the demo (they have a demo on the developer's website) and am quite happy with it.
paul.maud.dib Oct 26, 2012 @ 9:24pm 
For those interested in combing support for this game, with supporting Steam (I suspect everyone here is at least comfortable with using Steam ... but you never know), and wanting to have a good impact on the wargaming world ie good old school board game looking wargames on the PC (and increasingly other more recent technologies tablets being a good example), I can only implore you to visit Slitherine makers of some damn fine wargames, as well as their partner, Matrix Games makers of a great wealth of computer wargames (google the names they are easy to find), and join in with the persons on the company forums trying to get wargame makers more interested in feeling like Steam might be worth it to exploit more aggressively.

It is sad, but a truth, that wargames simply do not sell in massive sums because the hobby is one barely even known to mainstream gaming. It is true that most wargamers play most other games as well. But generally speaking, most non wargamers simply will have never even heard of the companies as well as the games in the wargaming world.

Steam for good or for bad, it is a massive dose of publicity, and exposure wargaming genuinely needs.
Mighty Poo Nov 21, 2012 @ 12:08pm 
What about Wargame: European Escalation? Do you consider that to be a wargame?
paul.maud.dib Nov 23, 2012 @ 4:21pm 
An honest question and I will honour it with an honest answer. No, it's just a common real time strategy game, (and the word real in RTS has never been any more accurate than military intelligence or common sense as I see it). These games appeal to a lot of people, so I am not saying it is not a viable method to make cash as a game developer, but, it has zero in common with a game designed with the way Unity of Command is (to give an example).

I personally do not like the RTS genre at all. With 2 exceptions. Panther Games (aussy company) makes a title called Airborne Assault (which currently has 3 released titles under that name), and the Close Combat game (which has been around since mid 90s) and has several known releases some of which have been modernized and revamped. Both of these games though, require a human opponent for even them to shine. But both games are popular with the hard core wargaming crowd (and I own all of them).

So it is not the lack of turns that I dislike, it is the lack of credible connection with a thinking man's wargame that I see as being the case. I mean, yeah you need to think to some extent in these games, but, you likely won't see much thinking from gamers playing them routinely all the same.

Most people that would play traditional turn based wargame concepts, likely would eat alive the typical 'gamer' used to shooters and RTS designs, if that person were to challenge the average wargamer used to games that require think first, and forget you mouse control savvy as it is not required.

Sorry for long answer, but I figured it would also answer the question if anyone else wished to ask the question of any other title of a similar design to European Escalation.
Mighty Poo Nov 26, 2012 @ 12:24pm 
How about Hearts of Iron 3 then? :)
paul.maud.dib Nov 29, 2012 @ 2:33pm 
A looooong time ago, when they first mentioned the upcoming Hearts of Iron, the first one, I was very excited. Then I realised that it was to be a real time strategy design. I was less than happy. The game might have been a true gem if it had used turns.
Now I realise that it has gone on to be 3 editions, and one might think ok that indicates a success.
But when you consider all the hostility I have seen over the years heaped on every single release, and how they have sucked like a black hole until they were basically 'fixed' by essentially being released as a 'patch' disguised as a new release... which you were allowed to pay full price for, you will need to understand why I have no desire to play that game even if it were free.
But is it a wargame?
Well I refer back to my previous comment regarding RTS designs. And that is what Hearts of Iron is after all, an RTS design. And it matters not if the game sucks or doesn't when the question is focused on what sort of game it is, in my view. And being an RTS, that would be a no, it is not a classic 'wargame' as I have already established earlier where design considerations are taken into account.
jedsuspect Nov 30, 2012 @ 5:30pm 
I'm not a wargamer although through the years I have been tempted by many wargames beings history has always interested me but with UOC I'm really hooked. So I don't care what you call it but I love the game. Now if I could just figure out why my campaign won't go beyond the first 3 scenarios from the Soviet side (I even got 40 prestige on the 3rd).
DDuunneeWWaarriioorr Dec 7, 2012 @ 5:34pm 
My first wargame at age 10 was Avalon Hills' Kriegs Spiel back in 1968. Operational wargames like UoC have always been the right mix between strategic and tactical.

UoC reminds me of playing SSG's Russia: the Great War in the East 1941-45. In fact the big common factor between both is the rail lines or lack of rail lines: how they figure in supply, reinforcements, and operational special attachments. Funny how the rail line from Rostov does not go east at all (yes, really only north & south) and really makes going from west to east difficult(!). In SSG's game, I succeeding in making operational moves north around Rostov going for Saratov destroying Zhukov's massed Tank Army counter attack forces. I enjoyed seeing the Stalinist forces scramble to throw forces south of the now threaten Moscow while I descending from the north on Stalingrad clear to Astrakhan.

Fantasy Wars (Elven Legacy et al) is definitely a Panzer General Clone: I love it: turn based, hexes and all. (But I still think Fantasy General is better than Fantasy Wars).

I felt RUSE came close to the Close Combat series in play mechanics ... I play RUSE now and then, but I have to have my Close Combat fix regularly.

UoC has the simplistic mechanics that allow concentration on planning and execution bringing about the tipping point for exploitation or change in direction. Having been blessed to be employed for a time in a five sided building that planned strategic and operational actions, UoC gives great satisfaction on a job well done - planned and executed - but also teaches you, when your relentless enemy punches you where you did not expect - such is life.


"An army marches on it's feet, but fights on its stomach" Napoleon

DuneWarrior
Last edited by DDuunneeWWaarriioorr; Dec 7, 2012 @ 7:18pm
GoudaGobbler Feb 10, 2013 @ 2:07pm 
I would love to find conflict of heroes on steam, or the new twilight struggle to come from GMT...
I was wondering if there are some other real wargames here on steam. I guess not so much... I will have to enjoy this one :)
Last edited by GoudaGobbler; Feb 10, 2013 @ 2:10pm
horrid74 Feb 11, 2013 @ 1:17am 
Hi Paul,

I was checking out UoC and thought I might get some impression of the game by consulting the forums. I came upon your thread and was somewhat disappointed by how dismissive you are of RTS games and don't consider them true wargames.

I understand your opinion considering some of the more mainstream RTS titles. At their worst individually prompting vehicles (Like a Command and Conquer title) is more pew pew than strategic but turn based is hardly the exclusive criteria for what can be considered a true wargame.

I won't defend HoI3. The game remains a bothersome trial even after repeated "fixes" with dlcs as you said. HoI2 on the other hand was a very good wargame that offered many challenges and provides excellent replayability. In fact events occurring in real time add another degree of complexity that demands greater management and planning from the player than a conventional you go-I go mechanic.

Pauses last as long as you choose to keep them active. There is as much time for consideration as you might want. Speed while active is variable and can proceed at a crawl during significant engagements or be sped up during periods when you are not actively engaged in combat. The game presented some challenges initially but it was very satisfying to orchestrate a coordinated war on two fronts in different time zones. All of this required operations on zulu time planning the engagements on the rate of advance of the differing units. Concentrations of forces had to be considered due to the less favourable light conditions in one of the zones. Bombing sorties occurred over both target areas prior to the advance of the ground forces; again orders relayed to these units had to be delivered prior to zero hour.

RTS games are not necessarily limited by the how time is regulated but by the depth of strategic possibilities they offer the armchair general. There are some challenging wargames availible on steam if you are willing to rexamine your criteria a bit. You might be pleasantly surprised. While I do like HoI2 I much prefer EU3 and CK2. They call them "grand strategy" games but I don't much care what they name them so long as there is depth, challenge and the satisfaction of when even the smallest of plans come together: even if I only won the battle and not the war.

CK2 also has the ridiculousness of an HBO story as a distraction from the more pertinent campaign of conquest. I like this one especially because without sacrificing the big picture you still have that personal story for additional entertainment.
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