^^o^^ BatCat Apr 11, 2013 @ 6:01am
(Tip) Unit Design..
I would like to start this for various tips and tricks for making and using units.

If you have a cool one post it too.

This one can be adapted for late game but here I show the design for your first or second units.


Two parts, Design and Training, each with a little differance to make a great one-two punch thats just killer.

Part One
First open Training panel, hit Design button, hit New button. In weapons tab hit the "up arrow" beside Spears or Staff, I usualy wait until Spears are ready. This will give you the best one (Spear/Staff)at any given time.

Early game there won't be much else so just hit Male/Female button a few times and find something that looks the part. Then go to the Abilities / Traits tab.

Spear1:
Add two abilites, Charge and Finess.
Charge: gets you extra moves and damage on their FIRST MOVE.
Finess: gives an extra damage to those with a lesser Initiative. Most likely with this design.
Hit Save button, adjust icon background and pose to suit.
Create name Spear1. (Change later if you like but for now: Spear1)
Save.

Spear2:
Back on Unit design list, Select Spear1 then Edit.
Change appearance ..light/dark. Something.
On the Abilities / Traits tab change Finess to Blood Thirsty.
Blood Thirsty: large damage on anything thats hurt.
(Not all factions have it, you may need to use another like Underdog. Just change it something with a little extra damage.)
Hit Save button, adjust the pose or something to make it a little differrant.
Change name to Spear2.
Save


Part Two; Training
What we need here are two cities with a differant number of E slots (Essence). One with two slots the other with 3 slots, at least. More is better, 3 and 4 slots maybe.

On each put "Aura of Grace" spell. This will give units an Initiative boost of +1 per each E slot.
Spear1 train in the 3 E city (or 4E)
Spear2 train in the 2 E city (or 3E)

End result has Spear1 acting first in battle, doing a pretty good hit, with Spear2 going next with BloodThirst getting a realy good damage hit.

A couple of simple units doing greater damage with a one-two punch!

Just the thing you need early game. Some will argue these guys are expensive early, well they are but you're creating two in the time its takes to make one.

A bunch of turns later I made SpearA and SpearB with a little armour and added "Aura of Might" to give a little more.

This can be adapted mid-game using hammers or blades ..and again late-game with two differant Forts and differant number of E slots.

One of the Forts can get BloodThirst built in giving units with it already a stacked double BT for a 50% extra damage on those that are hurt. Ouchy!

Great fun..



Last edited by ^^o^^ BatCat; Apr 11, 2013 @ 6:26am
Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
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^^o^^ BatCat Apr 11, 2013 @ 6:24am 
Another Variation on Theme (VoT)

If your Sov'/Hero Mage can do area damage or curse EARLY in battle..

..then put units with BloodThirst with them to follow up on that damage.
100% Recycled Awesome Apr 11, 2013 @ 7:59pm 
Scrying Pools + Oracle can get you to 6 Essence. Aura of Grace + Aura of Fire (or whatever it's called) can kick out some pretty OP units. Doom Hammer knights can walk out without any intiative penalties at the same time running around with fire enchanced doom hammers. I once got a late game Doom Hammer Knight company up to nearly 1,000 damage per bash.

Low level archers turn into death dealers with high iniative and fire damage.
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 12, 2013 @ 12:32am 
Heheh, sounds great. I use the Conclaves myself.

I am curious what you use early game, something like Spear units above, something that would help others get the basic ideas for designing and tweaking Units.

In my screen shots I have a "Training Area" and in it is a stack of only Spears that can take on 3 Death Demons without getting hurt. ah, lemme see if I can dig it out.

Full size Eyefinity screen shot you can scroll around;
" Training Ground "

The Spear group is just low center by the 5 Shadow Portals, waiting thier turn again. The "Final Crew" from the other screen shot is in the distance at the top a little to the right.
If you check the icons on the far right you might notice/recognize other Sov's as vassels.

Hrmm.. need to put that on the Shadow Portal post..

<wave>

100% Recycled Awesome Apr 12, 2013 @ 11:16pm 
Originally posted by BatCat:
Heheh, sounds great. I use the Conclaves myself.

I am curious what you use early game, something like Spear units above, something that would help others get the basic ideas for designing and tweaking Units.

Basic spear unit until I can get archers. I tend to use binding a lot so I rush for the shards. If I can get horse/warg archers and burning demons, I can expand extremely fast. But it's spear units until. I tend to have serious problems if I start in an area with no shards and no wargs/horses the way I set my factions.
MrNobody Apr 14, 2013 @ 9:21pm 
The best units are those with spears. I give them a body armor and initiative perks. If they trained early in the game, theyd kill a dragon later in game. Another thing that I discovered, is that its better not to use auto armor/weapon upgrade, as the armor and weapons using different resourses with every upcoming research.

Another of my favourite units is a spear+warg+body armor+ first strike+initiative. Killers.
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 14, 2013 @ 11:05pm 
Originally posted by EDeMyLove:
/... Another thing that I discovered, is that its better not to use auto armor/weapon upgrade, as the armor and weapons use different resourses with every upcoming research. .../

I agree with this one as there are certain lumps in the path. Dress them out all nice, under the encuberance. Upgrade. Trained or upgraded in the field ..suddenly encumbered. Grrr.

..a funny upgrade; Custom Scouts, zero armour, Horse, Sindarin(Cindarin?) Staff, Charge, Rabbit, Sneak. I had needed them fast so trained in near by big Conclave, and at least give'em +init'. +6 from the Con'. Cool. Much later not much need for sneakin Scout so folded them in with an army. Was cool, early stiker with lots of back up. Never got hurt.

Upgrading the troops in the field.. oh, whats this Scout has an upgrade? Cool ok. Did not look close. I expected a little more "Staff". Next battle the Scouts weren't with the early strikers ..damn, they got encumber'd. Odd, thier Archers did not pick on them as the weakest, 2 or 3 chances to wipe'em out. Odd.

When thier move came was big guy and I thought let them hit him and if I lose them not a big deal, its not like they were solid hitters with armour. Well if they don't just run up to the big guy and just start wailing on him and put him right in the ground!! Holy snot! What?

2 Things; With SNEAK they got ignored. Zero armour ..toast at any time.
The upgrade from nice Staff was to big freekin MAUL and a ton of init' behind it.

Just beat the pooo out of'em. Totaly out "character" for these guys. Hilarious.

They lived to the very end, with lots of kills. 8-)


Originally posted by EDeMyLove:
/... Another of my favourite units is a spear+warg+body armor+ first strike+initiative. Killers.

I'm not a fan of First Strike training from a Fort, a bit unflexable opening. I'm a big fan of Charge's extra moves and damage. Mostly when doubled, Charge trait designed in. (+6 damage per head in a unit, +42 in a company) Yours, combined with Spear1&2 in the opening post, or similar, would be monstrous.

I did a test with full stack of just Spears. 3 lines, stagger'd init'. Put them up against an army of 3 Death Demons, fresh out of training. Smoked 'em and picked up something like 6-10 Levels. After that, nothing touched them.

But was horrible moving them around with 2 step. Disposable experiment, was cheap ..no horse or wargs, that worked.

((Let one of the cat's out of the bag; 3 Death Demon army is one from the Shadow Portal))
((..and those Spearmen are vissable on my "Training.." screen shot.))


Great fun..
100% Recycled Awesome Apr 15, 2013 @ 1:19am 
Autoupgrade on armor is a really bad idea. Especially since the game automatically goes to the best, which is always the heaviest.

Auto weapon upgrade, especially for Archers is fine.

I don't really share the spear fascination. Once I'm up to Horse Archers, I go with counterstrike weapons as I tend to use my Knights to defend my Horse Archers. I'm in late game right now with a map and my Horse Archer companies are doing over 160 damage. In a 9 unit army, it's usually a Champion, 4 Horse Archers, 2 Mounted Melee Unit with counterstrike, and with 2 special slots dependent on what I have, whether it be a Great Wolf, Dragon, or Air Demon.
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 15, 2013 @ 1:59am 
Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

/... I don't really share the spear fascination. .../

Its not so much as that, its just the first thing we realy tweek and mess with. So tips and tricks releated can be carried along to others.

For example; A line of blades that hit for 30 and head, and the second line hits for almost 50% more IF there is something still alive. Blade1 and Blade2 almost exactly like the Spear1/2 above take out dragons with the 1-2..
(swap out a little extra damage for double Blood Thirst = Blade2 = almost 50% more)

Part of the build has a blade with double counterstrike. Move them into the right place they will kill 3 units in one move. Target the strongest, then two of his buddies attack. 3 units toast. Some armour and good dodge. (Or kill Spear group first)

I don't actualy use 9 stacks much. If you take the effort you put into Archers to bring thier init' up to speed and instead put into blades that already have a +init'. ..you can cut thier socks off PDQ. Don't get me wrong, I like my Archers too.. add a triple to the 6pack to take out the bigger cities and loaded forts.


100% Recycled Awesome Apr 15, 2013 @ 4:05pm 
I tend to build my archers in 5+ essence conclaves. They generally have +5 iniative and if I'm not facing lots of fire resistant factions, I go with the Heart of Fire for +5 fire damage, so they tend to come out minimum 21 Iniative. With 2 Life Masters, it's possible to crank out 3 of them in one turn from that city. Expensive on the crystal, but possible. And with a familiar, getting them to the front is fast.

I tend to go with stacks of 7 until late game and the 9 stack is generally to take on a Boss. Stacks of 4 against inferior slave based factions is doable if you're mount heavy.

Remember playing aganist a custom slave faction and they had nearly double my power rating when we went to war. Except that the slave units were so inferior that even their numbers couldn't overcome the technological advantage. Was outnumbered at least 5 to 1 but took them down to nearly nothing and I was doing in on stacks of 4~5.

The athiacan (?) sword is pretty awesome. Can crank out good solid double counterstrike knights with no crystal requirements. Playing my first Altar faction as trying out the scroll quests. Got the Shadow Portal last night. And Mana blast and the allegeldy glitched 1 hit dragon kill spell.
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 15, 2013 @ 6:51pm 
I'm confused, stack usualy reffers to the army and its 9 spots/slots.

What I was getting at; if you just swap bow for blade in those troops thats a +7 init differance. The blade should come realy close to 2 hits while bow gets one. If you have Rabbit, ring or amulet they should be closer to 2 to 1 hits. If all of those bits then more..

Question to all; anyone know how to DISABLE standard units that "come with factions" so that only the ones -we- make are used?

Example; all come with Archer. I made nicer Archer, same name. Hid other Archer so I only see mine. Play against same faction and I see both Archers coming at me. Not the plan.

I would have amazing factions and play styles and decent themes. Suitable for release.
AND I WANT TO!!

<sigh>
100% Recycled Awesome Apr 15, 2013 @ 7:03pm 
Originally posted by BatCat:
IWhat I was getting at; if you just swap bow for blade in those troops thats a +7 init differance. The blade should come realy close to 2 hits while bow gets one. If you have Rabbit, ring or amulet they should be closer to 2 to 1 hits. If all of those bits then more.

Depends. If your units get immobilized then blades can sometimes never get a hit in. And some beasts/enemy units I keep my distance on. Slags aren't much of a threat if they never get within range. Many elementals can one hit kill. And Juggernauts do crazy melee damage. Holding all things constant, not having the bow/bash disadvantage does get an extra hit in, but I find that often I'd prefer to keep my distance. Plus, with 5+ Inti, it really doesn't matter that much to me.

Also, I like being able to kill casters before they cast. On many tactical battles, they're at the very back and my mounted blade units can't get there fast enough or kill enough units to open a path before I can kill the caster. One fight I had, the AI had 5 casting units and my mounted archers killed them all before they got a single spell out. NO SPELL CASTING FOR YOU!
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 16, 2013 @ 2:36pm 
heheh.. I was big archer/mage unit fan for long time, a few centuries it TURNs out. (haR a double!)

But now use Hero/Sion/Henchmen to take out the cheap shots in the back, thier init' just pumped go first. Then cold blades and L-Hammers(sometimes) have thier way with 'em.

I've got Sion's rolling out with the best blade, stack of fire/air books ready for 'em (Haste, ThunderStrike and CloudWalkin) and Blade1/2 for each. Pack'em off to train'ng ground. Wimpy Heros get fire and Staff of the Furnace.. All get Warboars.

Two blade pairs. One pair heavy metal requirement, the other big on crystal. Depends on what's availiable. Same with archers but don't require much of either.
AVALONIAN KNIGHT: Threepeater Apr 21, 2013 @ 7:25am 
i prefer using the Heart Of The Glacier with my soverign, but i can only get it after i kill Vetrar, which i have only done once and in the process i lost a dragon
^^o^^ BatCat Apr 21, 2013 @ 2:19pm 
Originally posted by Threepeater:
i prefer using the Heart Of The Glacier with my soverign, but i can only get it after i kill Vetrar, which i have only done once and in the process i lost a dragon

There are quite a few good blades around, like the Champions (victory Quest off), and two in that Arena quest hut, tho the second is an amzing whacker but gets zero experiance with it.

..genneraly we are talking about units and multi unit designs.

Of note; my current units are getting trained in a 5E fort only, so "The Ring of Speed" (+1 init') is added to the xxx1 units to ensure they go first and xxx2 units now have double BloodThirst. Rolling off with Level 5.
100% Recycled Awesome Apr 21, 2013 @ 3:20pm 
Sword of Wrath is better than Heart of the Glacier. Dealing with Vetrar isn't that hard. Trick is to tornado him to ensure he's alone and then fire mage him to death. If you have any of the global fire spells, hit him with that too before attacking. Getting him down to 75% and alone and then lots of fire mages makes quick work of Vetrar. Same deal goes for Delin. But with Ice Mages. But I think he's immune to fire so global fire spells won't work. Vetrar's Howl does come in handy.

SoW + item that gives 3 health per kill with decent armor and dodge can have a Sov soloing entire armies.
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